Neil Dudley: The Cowboy Perspective, well, it might be hard to define, but I guarantee if you think about it, you’ve got one in mind. Whether you’re building a legacy, an empire, or a fan base, I bet when your friends look at you, they see some cowboy in your face. Y’all come along, let’s talk about this or that. Maybe when we’re done, you’ll go away with another perspective to put under your hat.
Hey, everybody. I just had to pause and think, am I going to say the same exact thing that I always say? I feel like when I record these intros, I’m kind of always saying like, hey everybody, welcome to the Cowboy Perspective, thanks for listening, be sure and go share and submit and all those things. Well, I’m not going to say that today. All I want to say is, folks, on the podcast today, Miss Lacey Haegan. Let’s get to it.
Hey, TCP Nation, those listeners that are here that end up downloading and paying attention to this conversation, thank you so much. I appreciate it. I’ve got a really a fun guest on the show today. I guess a little backstory is I went to a conference called Level Up and as part of that, I got a mentor session with somebody, and it happened to be with this lady, and she told me a lot of really valuable stuff. So, I begged her onto the podcast. She said yes. And I’m really excited for you guys to get to hear what she’s all about, what her experience is, and just some insight into what I’m calling her cowgirl perspective. We’ll see how much cowgirl work she’s ever got into here in a minute. Hey Lacey, thanks for being here. Welcome to the show and tell everybody a little bit about who you are maybe.
Lacey Haegan: Awesome. Thank you, Neil. I’m honored to be here. I am really excited to be considered a cowgirl at any level. I’ll take it. That’s such a neat treat. Yeah. This is such a cool conversation that we’re going to have. I have no idea where we’re going to go with it, but I am excited. My name is Lacey Haegan, and I am a lady boss in San Diego. I run a company called Beaute Nouveau Botanical Beauty. I spend a lot of my time in the beauty space and helping to empower women in just all things beauty related or self-care, just having conversations like you’re having. So, just excited to be here and talk about all the things you want to talk about.
Neil Dudley: Sure. I’ve got a ton of questions for you. First one being, so where did you grow up? Like, do you have siblings? What were your parents like? Let’s give everybody a little, I love that. Like maybe that’s not the most important part of a conversation, but I’d like to know it about you. And I think those people that are fixing to hear your story or hear your perspectives, some of them are going to say, wow, that was my life, just like that. So, let’s paint that picture for them a little bit.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah, I love that. There’s so many experiences out there and it is nice to relate in certain ways to other people and connect that way. So, I actually was born in Michigan in the seventies when things were really tough in the Northern part of that state for people who weren’t involved in the car manufacturing industry. So, my parents actually ended up having some really tough financial times and we moved to Alaska. So that was an interesting place to be a little tiny kid. I only have vague memories, but after being in Alaska for a year or so, my mom and I actually left and then moved to Northern California. So, I spent my formative years of my childhood really in Northern California with a single mom and me. And it was actually a fantastic way to grow up because I learned all kinds of different lessons being in that situation. I moved schools a lot, met a lot of different people, learned a lot of independence as a young kid, when you have a mom working full time and she actually started her own business. So, I grew up with a lot of kids in the neighborhood and the apartments playing and doing crazy things without a lot of supervision. And then actually my mom got remarried when I was about nine to a fantastic man. And then my sister was born when I was ten and my brother when I was twelve. So, I got to be an only child for a long time and really explore and do a lot of outside activities like hiking the fire roads and riding my bike with roller skates on because there was nobody really say, hey, don’t do that, that might not me a good idea.
Neil Dudley: I love that. That should be a t-shirt – riding my bike with roller skates on.
Lacey Haegan: It was like the most normal idea to me ever. That probably explains why I broke my arms as a kid falling down. But yeah, it was fun. It was Northern California. There were lots of hippies around, people were into like all natural food and farmer’s markets. And it was before it was like dangerous to be out and about by yourself. I mean, I remember, hiking down the creaks and ending up at the end of the road, hitchhiking back at like seven years old. Just a fun existence. So that was kind of my childhood. I didn’t, I grew up with a mom who said the words no and can’t are dirty words. Like, don’t say that; always figure out how to make it happen. So, it was just, it was fun. We had a vegetable garden with my cousins. So, it might not have been the traditional upbringing, but it was great for me. And it’s really helped me be an adult who doesn’t really take no for an answer and doesn’t really- I’m uncomfortable with people saying you can’t do that or no or you shouldn’t try that.
Neil Dudley: Almost to a point where, I perceive, if somebody says you can’t, you immediately think, oh, that’s BS. I smell a rat. Anybody that says no or I can’t, that smells fishy to me. That just feels like you haven’t tried.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah. That’s exactly what I was thinking. I was just saying you haven’t given it a try yet. So that’s me in a nutshell. Little kids running everywhere, just pretending and building things and enjoying the outside. And that was it.
Neil Dudley: What I want to say is your attitude towards that upbringing is part of what I think makes you great. You just, maybe it wasn’t perfect. Yeah, there were tough times in Michigan, yeah, your parents got a divorce, yeah, you had kind of- I’m sure that was an interesting experience – your mom getting remarried. Yeah, he was a great guy, but still that’s as a kid, that’s all interesting stuff to go through, and you just kind of embrace it and say, hey, that was mine and it wasn’t traditional. I don’t think there is such a thing as a traditional upbringing. I mean, you could argue that mine wasn’t very traditional in the sense that how many other people actually grow up like that? Typically, there’s not a lot of people living in the middle of the country. See, we did all our running around, it was just in the country. We had to run two miles just to the next neighbor. So, but I do kind of long for those times. It’d scare me to death if I thought my seven-year-old had to hitchhike back to home these days.
Lacey Haegan: Oh, 100%. I mean, I used to fly to Alaska by myself from, I think my first flight was when I was six and I went back and forth for years. And I just can’t imagine now that that would ever be even an option. It just was different. Times were different. And I feel you on, gosh, I’m so glad I got to have those independent experiences. And I kind of feel sad for the kids who don’t get to do things like that now.
Neil Dudley: Sure, I feel sad. And I wonder if it’s justified. Are there more predators now than there were then? I kind of doubt it. I just think we weren’t so hyper-aware of it, and yeah, there were casualties to that. I mean, there were kids taken advantage of, very sad things. But I kind of bet if my daughter had to hitchhike home, she’d probably be fine. I mean, there’s just that small circumstance, small chance that it could go bad and that is so scary that you almost forget about how small the chance is.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah. And it also comes against like how small is the chance, but how great is the risk. And if that small chance were to happen, then that’s just not a risk I want to take. And I fully get that – well, it’s a complicated issue. But I just, I do remember fondly hiking up those fire roads and taking a little picnic. I just remember those times fondly and I wish that everybody had those.
Neil Dudley: There’s a lot of learning in there. I guarantee some of your success ties back to finding yourself in a scenario out there with nobody to say, oh, hey Lacey, this is how you get out of this problem. You had to just figure it out. Which I try to do with that with my kids. I kind of want to- I try to put them in those positions, but I don’t do it as well as it can be. When I was a kid, quick as mom could boot us out the door in the morning, we were out, and then don’t come back till dark, maybe coming in and-
Lacey Haegan: And you wanted to go.
Neil Dudley: Yeah, you bet. We loved it. We already had forts built out in the back. Okay, let’s go finish everything we had planned to do. I think kids will adapt to whatever. Like now they’ve adapted to devices and that kind of thing. And that’s, they’re building a world inside those. So, I don’t know if it’s good, bad, or otherwise, it’s just different.
Lacey Haegan: Well, I remember- what you just said made me remember the funniest moment when I was, I was probably nine, I don’t know. And the neighborhood kids and I, we were exploring out and around the apartment complexes, and we came up on this like, almost like an outdoor living room. It had been set up so nicely. There was one of those cable reals set up at the table. There were some chairs, there was some things. We were like this is cool, hanging out. Only 20 years later did I realize it was like a homeless encampment. And we just had found this place to hang out. We just didn’t know, and nothing happened, and it was great. Nobody was there. But I remember walking through there and falling in this mud pit that must’ve been three feet deep. And I was to my neck, covered head to toe, pulled out by my friends, covered in mud, walking down the street, going home, yelling at my mom, “Mom!” She was in the shower, coming out, figuring out what has happened to me, hosing me off. It’s so funny when you’re a kid to do those things. And I think those experiences, ever fleeting as they are, they do formulate how you deal with things as an adult.
Neil Dudley: Well, we’re remembering those things right now. It’s definitely part of our, I guess, psyche almost.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah. Fall in the mud and hose yourself off and get going.
Neil Dudley: I mean, I think, I don’t know. I talk to my girls a lot, which I’m so glad to have you on. I’m trying to, or I certainly want to give females a voice on the podcast. The title, the Cowboy Perspective, is a little bit masculine, let’s say. But my experience is I learned a lot from cowboys and cowgirls. Women, they might not have called themselves cowgirls, but they were. I mean, they were just- my mom, she was a hard worker. A lot of things that I do today came from just her driving it into me, like say something nice to a person. Always find the thing like, wow, Lacey, your hair just looks awesome today, so good. It’s a simple thing, easy for me to say, easy for you to accept, and we have a nice rapport there instead of it’s just, I think she taught me that was so, it’s such an easy thing in life to do. Never miss that chance. Okay so, wow, that was fun. We kinda trailed along on some of those stories. Let’s get into your career a little bit and some of this stuff that I think the listeners that are here to say, hey, how do I get better? How do I be better with my family, my business, all these different aspects of our lives? And here’s the stuff that I think you know and can share. Maybe let’s first explore, how come were you my mentor? Like how did you get into, what drives you? What makes you interested in teaching people or being a mentor?
Lacey Haegan: That is a great question. I love talking to people. I love asking them questions. I love listening. And I love being able to connect things that they say. And when you’re trying to do something like run a business, it’s often something that you don’t have a lot of training in, even if you went to school for it. You get a lot of great theories and maybe you read a lot of case studies or seen some great examples, but that doesn’t really help you figure out the day to day and the big picture ideas and doesn’t really always help you make decisions. And there’s a lot of ways that you can fast track things. And there’s a lot of ways that you can slow yourself down. And when you have an opportunity to help somebody get out of their own way or help make the pace go a little bit faster in business, because business is, it’s their lifestyle, it’s their livelihood, it’s their happiness. How much time are you spending working versus enjoying your family or the life that you wanted to create when you started the business? So, I love to be able to sort of be a sounding board and a neutral nonjudgmental workshopper for people who are just legit, trying to push their business along, push their vision along. And what I’ve really learned from being a mentor is that people aren’t just pushing a business along. It’s never about the business. It’s never about the product that you’re making or the service that you’re offering. It’s always attached to some like deep seeded experience that affected you and sort of puts you on a trajectory of your life. And when you can help pick that scab or dig up what that is, it just makes that business so robust and so impactful. It’s just a great experience to be in it. And I don’t claim to know anything really. I mean, I’m just here to hear your story and help identify like, hey, there’s an opportunity there, that connects to that, or did you realize that the cost of that product that you sell is the same daily cost of those cheeseburgers that you used to eat as a kid that you still remember? And they’re like what? No! So that’s the part I really like. And I don’t know if I’m qualified on any level, I just really enjoy it. And it seems to be that when I can fully immerse myself in that engagement and that connection, fun things happen and progress just continues.
Neil Dudley: Well, it’s already happened for me, just from the conversation we had. And you’re just kind of like, well, what’s the deal? Why are you here? We were just kind of talking about things and you said something that stuck with me. It was like, everybody’s afraid. And I’m like, you were like, hey, you got to deal with that fear before anything can go forward. And all it was was me being lazy. I had to put some numbers out there, show a plan, these kinds of things. We’ve already implemented some of that, and we’re seeing the fruits of those labors. So, thank you. I’m glad you don’t require commissions or anything. I’ve already paid my money. But it’s paying off for us. So, thank you for that.
Lacey Haegan: It’s universal currency.
Neil Dudley: Sure. I think the thing is to serve people in your business, your employees, the people that buy your products or services, just like truly find that genuine piece of you that says I just want them to win. And man, whatever comes next, I’ve not yet found it to never come back to me. Of course, I’m not actually expecting it to come back to me, so it may not, but that’s okay.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah. I agree. And there’s so much learning in just helping somebody talk something out. I mean, I don’t know what’s going to come to me or what’s going to come out of anything. I never expect that I’m to get something out of it necessarily, but there’s like magic that just happens in that interaction.
Neil Dudley: Awesome. So where did that Beaute Nouveau – did I even say that? Where did that name come from? And do you love it? Are you like, man that’s a hard thing to tell people how to spell when I tell them my email address? Sorry. See, we change topics quickly here on the Cowboy Perspective.
Lacey Haegan: I love it. It’s so funny that you said that because you asked me such a great question the other day – you asked me straight up, like, do you ever regret naming your company that? And it’s so funny because like I love what it stands for. And I love that it’s like a French interpretation of something, and I love how French women take care of themselves. They’re not all about aggressive treatment. They’re about pampering what they have and the self-care, or it’s just part of their culture in a different way than it is ours. So, I love that piece. And I love that it’s parallel to the Art Nouveau movement, which that was a time period where artists and craftsmen in the 1890s to the 1940s in France were creating this whole new art movement. And they were just fed up with mass production and hardlines and the rich people putting a price on their art. And if they wanted to work with wood, it was being said that it wasn’t valuable because it was not bold or not gemstones. And they were like, yeah, but look at what I made out of this, like I created the art. The art is what is, what’s so valuable. And people were living in crazy poverty and there were all these social issues during that time period. And the artists were really the ones that were influencing social change. And I feel like in the beauty industry, we’re kind of in a parallel because women are sick of mass-produced products with lots of chemicals in them. We don’t want to have to read every ingredient label. We don’t want to be fed marketing advertisements with a 16-year-old girl being the beauty standard. What really finally did it for me was a Chanel ad – the girl in the ad, she looks like she’s 12 years old. Like this is ridiculous. Come on. So, I feel like we’re in a time period where women are just rebelling in the same way that the artists did. They want natural products. They want a more varied and broad definition of beauty. So, I like it in that regard. But I do have a funny thing where I remember being at a Chanel training, and there was this new mascara that was coming out and the trainer kept saying, like, kept getting us all to try to say the word in French. And I was like I don’t want to say this.
Neil Dudley: I wish everybody could see her right now. She’s rolling her eyes in the biggest way possible.
Lacey Haegan: Rolling my eyes! And then I’m like, I still kind of joke with myself – I’m like, you hated saying that word in the training, and then you named your company the same word, Beaute Nouveau. So, I don’t know if I’m just like a glutton for punishment. I just chose to punish myself for the rest of my life in a weird, odd way, but I love a lot of things about it and then it just kind of silly. And it’s a reminder not to take myself so seriously. And if people want to call it Beauty Nouveau, go for it. You want to call it Beaute Nouveau, go for it. I don’t care. Make it your own. Just have fun with it.
Neil Dudley: My only problem with it is I can’t pronounce it. Other than that, it’s all good.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah. I mean, I used to work for Chanel and so many people would come in and be like, what’s this channel? It’s like it doesn’t hurt my feelings. Like, let’s talk about it. It’s fun. You know people call Target Tarjae like, I think that’s bougie and fabulous.
Neil Dudley: I didn’t even know what the word bougie meant for the longest- just recently over Christmas, I think somebody said it. I’m like, what are you, what are you talking about? And then, oh okay, now I understand – bougie. Well, alright, cool. The words that we have in our language are interesting. It’s so fun. Like I was talking to somebody the other day and they’re like, man, one of the most relaxing things for me is just wetting a hook. What does that mean? Well, it means go fishing. -that’s right. It means go fishing. But how we just in different, I don’t know, parts of the country say things differently. So, it’s just a lot of fun to me living and being a human and interacting with other humans. And I kind of also appreciate the more introverted people who are kind of like you’re crazy for that. I don’t know, why do you want to be around another human? I love just my own little space. And so, yeah, we’re just different. I listened to a book about that – the introvert, Being an Introvert in a World that Never Shuts Up, something like that. And it was really cool that the introverted personalities bring a lot to business, innovation, all those kinds of things.
Lacey Haegan: 100%. Well, and I think it’s hard to identify. I mean, I am a really strong introvert. I mean, people don’t believe me when I say that, but I am definitely that person. I have like bursts of extrovertivity. Like I have bursts.
Neil Dudley: You make yourself do it because you had to build a business, I think. That’s my theory.
Lacey Haegan: That’s super true. And it’s almost like an adrenaline rush. You just get out there and you do that thing. But then I also love to be on my own in my own space. And that’s how I recharge. It’s almost like I plug in by disconnecting. And not everybody’s like that. But to see the value in how all the different ways people function and juice up, it’s neat to be aware of that.
Neil Dudley: Yeah. See, I go to like a conference where lots of people are there, and I’m just getting going towards the end of it. Like, man, now we’re just rolling. Where my wife, she’s more introverted, by the end of that, she’s like drained because she’s just had to kind of rev that engine the whole time to be that engaged with that many different people, where the people are revving my engine for me. So, it’s just a thing. I think anybody listening, be aware or cognizant of how you feel after those kinds of interactions and get that recharge that you need or calm down a little. I get a little bit too revved up.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah, that’s true. That’s a good point too.
Neil Dudley: Okay. So, I like to explore failure, I mean, if it’s even a real thing. I’ve heard it said you never fail until you quit. I mean, there’s no such thing as failure. What’s your perspective or thought on that?
Lacey Haegan: Well, I really like how you just said that words are so interesting and how we use our words, because words really do shape your reality. And I agree with that statement too. You don’t fail until you quit. I mean, I feel like a lot of times as humans, we get an idea, and we can visualize what we want to do or what we think is going to come out of it. And if it doesn’t happen, we take it as a failure. But if you have faith or you believe in a higher power or a bigger purpose, then to me, it’s just really an opportunity for something you just don’t know about yet. And there can be that really acute pain or grief or loss or confusion that comes out of something not working out like you thought it was going to. But in a lot of situations, when you have that time in between and you can look back at it, you can see the lessons or you can see how, oh, actually I’m glad that didn’t work out like that because then I wouldn’t have this. It’s just like a constant redirect. And that’s what life really is. It might not always be really fun, and it might be sometimes just incredibly painful, but really, if you can see it not as a failure is just a, hey, just move on, make a different decision, it’s time to keep going. Because if you take something so personally as a failure, it’s just like digging a hole and climbing inside. Like let’s not add insult to injury and take too much personal responsibility for it. So, I don’t, I try not to spend a lot of time in failure. I definitely know that I’ve tried a lot of things that haven’t necessarily worked out, but there’s been a great lesson in that and it’s been growth. And there’s nothing better for humility than an experience that doesn’t work out. And that humility often translates into being able to help somebody else through a painful or challenging time. So, there’s so much goodness in that growth and learning in my opinion. I would prefer to always win and have things work out, but I’ve also learned we’re not always in charge of that.
Neil Dudley: Totally. And it’s kind of- this almost ties a parallel in my mind to the beauty industry in who defines beauty? Who defines failure? Like why do humans think somebody else can define it? You should be defining it. I mean, come on ladies, you’re beautiful. Nobody could tell you or should be able to tell you you’re anything else, and anybody that’s out there, you didn’t fail. You’ve tried, you’ve took a step in a direction that didn’t go the way you wanted it to. That doesn’t make it a failure. It is makes it an experience.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah, right. It’s just an experience.
Neil Dudley: In my life, it’s always worked like I’m very much a born-again Christian, and I believe there’s God and he’s with me and he’s watching and stuff, like I lose sight of that a lot. Things won’t work out. I’m like, man, so mad that didn’t happen because I know how everything should go. And then pretty quickly in some amount of time, that’s all behind me and we’re still just moving forward. And just like you said, you look up and you’re like, oh wow, that was so awesome that didn’t happen because we’d been in- just would be totally different. And I really like where it is now so I’m glad it’s not different.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah. I mean, we bought a house right as the market crashed and we ended up having to foreclose on it. Had we not foreclosed on that house, I would not have a company. I would not have the life I have right now. And none of the things that are happening would have ever been set in motion.
Neil Dudley: And since you foreclosed on the house, everybody must think you just suck at everything. You’re no good. You don’t know how to manage money.
Lacey Haegan: Worthless.
Neil Dudley: Yeah, see. I mean, no, that’s not true. Nobody even knows. Two people know, you and your husband or whoever – you said we, so I’m guessing there were two people. But that’s what, if I could give people something, it’s like release that worry of what somebody is going to think.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah, release the shame. There’s no shame in that. It’s just, it’s an experience that didn’t work out.
Neil Dudley: Maybe that particular banker might not want to loan you the money next time, but I bet you money if you walked in and needed money and made the numbers look good, he’d loan you the money. Like bankers aren’t- they don’t have memories. They just want to see the numbers.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah, exactly. But it’s a good lesson, I mean, that was monumental at the time and stressful and overwhelming, but I’m super happy it happened now.
Neil Dudley: So, what happened? Did you lose your job? Or like, do you mind exploring, like how did you get in that spot?
Lacey Haegan: Yeah, well, we got married-
Neil Dudley Did you pay too much for the house?
Lacey Haegan: Oh, of course, California. Yeah, absolutely. No, it was we bought it, we got married and bought a house, like the American dream, right after- you get married, you buy a house. That’s what you do if you can. That’s what we did. And then the whole the loan bubble popped, and we had a loan from Countrywide and Bank of America and that whole thing, we got caught right up in that. And unfortunately, it almost seemed like the day after we signed the loan papers, the market was like [crashing sound], and then, we just got to the point where, like you said, bankers look at the numbers. It didn’t make sense to look at this as an investment anymore, because it was so upside down and there was nothing we could do to get back. And it just didn’t make any sense numerically. And we had to just disconnect emotionally from it and realize, okay, this isn’t the best move, like to just continue paying on this mortgage.
Neil Dudley: This house is actually worth it. Right, sure.
Lacey Haegan: Exactly. And so, we went through all the processes. We did the loan modification applications. We went to three short sale opportunities, blah, blah, blah. The bank never worked with us. They never returned any phone calls. It was just a mess of a time. Anybody who went through anything during that-
Neil Dudley: I bet there are so many listeners that lived that same-
Lacey Haegan: Sorry, if I’m making you get hot about it because I know, it’s a tough conversation. But it was- Oh, and then the real big, the most challenging part of it was that while this was all happening, there was so many showings and there were so many people in and out, and it was just a different vibe in the real estate market. And somebody who saw the house when we weren’t there – I don’t have absolute proof, but I know this to be true – actually broke back into the house and ransacked it, robbed us silly. I mean, it was like they took everything out of every drawer.
Neil Dudley: That made for a great way to case a bunch of houses during that time that for the thieves.
Lacey Haegan: It did. And it happened a lot to people. I mean, beds turned upside down, everything out of the kitchen cupboards, everything out of the bedroom, just everything. And they actually took my jewelry box, and I didn’t have a lot of jewelry at the time, but I had like my grandmother’s wedding ring and my mom’s pearls. I had sentimental jewelry. And they took the pillowcase off my pillow. They dumped my jewelry box into the pillowcase and then through my jewelry box against the wall, and they took all my jewelry. And I didn’t have, there was nothing left. I just had my wedding ring that I was luckily wearing. And long story short, that was like that moment where it was just like, oh, we’re done. And we were in the middle of a short sale. And then we came home that day, like two days later, and there was a foreclosure notice on the front door. And we were like what? What happened?
Neil Dudley: Where did that come from, right.
Lacey Haegan: Like we were in the middle of negotiating this other paperwork. And so, it was just like this giant beast that was out of our hands, and we just had to surrender. And we ended up moving into a really cute neighborhood and meeting some great people and just, I actually, I got a settlement from my jewelry from the homeowners’ insurance, and that is how I started my company.
Neil Dudley: Oh, you got to be joking. I mean, it’s the craziest story right there. I mean, look at that. I mean, I hope you hear that, and you just think, wow, there are similar things in my life, or wow, look at what happened to Lacey, whatever’s happening in my life, although it feels so big right now, let me just keep getting up, keep trudging forward. And you never know, you might own a company that you’ve always dreamed of.
Lacey Haegan: It’s true. You don’t always know how you’re going to get places. In fact, that’s what I love about being a mentor. Like how, how are we going to do this? I don’t know. We’ll just, we’ll just keep going with it. We’ll just keep trying new ideas. We’ll keep seeing what shows up. And that just, that showed up.
Neil Dudley: I got to tell you all about one of the sponsors of the podcast. It’s a Little Buster Toys. Check them out at www.littlebustertoys.com. They got some of the coolest stuff you can’t find anywhere else. They’ve put out a new line of show animals – show sheep, pigs, steers, trim shoots, show pens, shavings, little squares for shavings for the animal stink. If you are a show animal family, I’m telling you you’re going to love these toys. My kids love playing with them, and I think they are something really unique you can’t find anywhere else. So go check them out. Use TCP5 for 5% discount thanks to the Cowboy Perspective. We appreciate you listening. Enjoy!
Hey, everybody. Quick break in the action to tell you a little bit about one of the sponsors for the podcast, thesimplegrocer.com. Get on your internet, go check them out. They carry all kinds of great products. You may have heard us talking about them here on the Cowboy Perspective, some of the brands they support. So, follow up, go check it out. If you choose to place an order, you use TCP in the discount code, we’ll hook you up with a deal. Go check them out, thesimplegrocer.com
I’ve heard it said, or see, I say that a lot – I’ve heard it said – because I’ve talked to a lot of people now, I mean, not even a whole lot of people, but enough people that there’s so much stuff just floating around in my brain as what I heard, and it sticks with me, but I can’t say exactly who told me. Let’s just suffice it to say almost – no – unequivocally, I don’t have an original thought ever. It’s always coming from something I’ve heard, from somebody on the podcast or somebody else in my life, my mom, my dad, my wife.
Lacey Haegan: Well, you know what, Neil, you made a really good point. And it’s funny that you said I don’t have an original thought in my mind. I don’t think any of us do because it’s all just a compilation of everything. And I have this really cool book it’s called Steal Like an Artist. And it’s really neat.
Neil Dudley: Who’s the author there? We’ll put it in the show notes.
Lacey Haegan: Austin Keon, K L E O N. And it’s ten things nobody told you about being creative, and it’s just adorable. It’s almost like a picture book. But it’s just basically explaining and kind of diagramming how we all create based off what we all create. And that’s how we have this collective consciousness and understanding and how we work together. And it is not necessarily like theft, but it’s just oh, cool, thanks for that idea. Like, let me take that further or let me take that in a different direction or recreate it or repurpose it. And that’s the fun.
Neil Dudley: Sure. I mean, it’s like the rising tide rises all ships. That’s been said a lot recently on the podcast, but it’s true. I interviewed with, oh, I almost said old. He’s not old, but to me he seems that way, I guess. He’s just a- he’s like a lifelong cowboy, and he lives basically off the grid. And he’s a rawhide braider, artist, a world renowned one really. And he thinks he doesn’t know anything. And he does some of the most beautiful, intricate braiding. And he sees people that he’s like, wow, I’ll never be as good as them. But guess what, he always tries to be as good as them. So that’s a thing I think is really valuable to take away is don’t judge yourself against somebody else, but certainly, what was it called? Steal like an artist. Awesome. What do you think about the thought or the statement turn your weakness into your strength? Got any perspective or thoughts on that?
Lacey Haegan: Yeah, I was actually thinking about that word weakness because it’s so, just like you said beauty is vague, like in the definition, like failure, who gets to say what the definition is? And I was thinking about how, like, I have a weakness for pizza, but that doesn’t make me weak. So that same word can be positioned in so many different ways and a weakness I mean, we’re human. There’s so much information out there. There’s so many things we can do. There’s so much going on. And we all don’t know hardly anything. We all know little bits of what we know, but is that really a weakness? Like I think a weakness is just an opportunity to grow something or know something or learn something, to practice something, to exercise something. And then once you get to that strong point, maybe then you have to hang that up and say, okay well, I got that. I learned that. Now it’s time to get weak again and learn something else. So, it’s kind of like-
Neil Dudley: Oh, yeah, that’s a cool way to think about it.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah, like it’s an ebb and a flow.
Neil Dudley: You can almost call it vulnerable, like get vulnerable again. Okay. So, what about strength? Like what is, what do you think you’re- like if somebody said, Lacey, you got to hang it all on one thing that you’re going to know you can kill it, what is that?
Lacey Haegan: That’s a really good question. I don’t know if I have an answer for what I would do if I had to hang it all. I think my strengths are in like putting pieces together. I like to do that. That’s fun for me. I think even-
Neil Dudley: Problem solving.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah, problem solving, exactly. And creating something out of nothing, surviving and thriving. Strength, it’s in so many forms. I mean, you show strength, you can show strength when you’re sobbing, you can show strength when you need to come to somebody’s aid. You can show strength when-
Neil Dudley: Well, let me wrap it in the context of business then. So, within your business, what is the thing you know you don’t need much help making sure it gets done?
Lacey Haegan: That’s a great question. I think me personally, if I could do nothing else but make sure that I can treat my customers in the most fancy and fun ways. Like I love thinking about like, okay, what gifts can we give? What treats can we get? Like how can we add more bougie-ness to this package? Or how can we reach out to this person and say, thank you. Or make them just feel super like, oh, thanks, oh my gosh!
Neil Dudley: Well, [inaudible] a dog, and we talk about that kind of stuff. That’s like some really great marketing things within that. It is like bother wanting to know your customers.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah, exactly. That’s the part I love. Like, I don’t love the operations piece or any of that stuff. Like that’s like ugh, I don’t enjoy that. I get it, but I don’t love it. I love to be able to like hug somebody and whether that’s physically or with some sort of experience, I would spend all of our budget on that all the time. Like that’s to me the most important thing. And I think it’s because I spent so many years working in the cosmetic industry and just feeling the feeling of women feeling sad or inadequate or like they weren’t pretty enough or good enough or had enough money to buy what they wanted. I’ve always loved to be able to be like, okay, well you’ve got this much money, great, here’s some extra things. Like let’s just make it a little more special. Or you’re not feeling great about yourself, stop looking at that picture. It’s got nothing to do with you. Like let’s hug it out. So that’s always been the piece that really was so impactful and moving to me and that’s the part, that’s really why I started my company. I love making products and I love the act of self-care, but really what it comes down to is when I realized that after helping, I don’t know, thousands of women, nobody had ever said to me, you know what, I’m just so beautiful. Like they always sat down and said, God, I’ve got under eye circles-
Neil Dudley: Oh, my third eyelash from the right is crooked.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah. Or like, it was just this reason of like why I’m ugly and like help me fix myself so I’m worthy. And I just want to eradicate that feeling, that thought process-
Neil Dudley: Do you ever feel like that?
Lacey Haegan: Yeah, absolutely.
Neil Dudley: I know, it’s the craziest thing. Like we’re sitting here, like, man, they’re crazy for being like that and I do it too. I’m like, man, my left nostril is bigger than the other. And that kind of looks funny when I’m on camera. Whatever, it’s just how you are. You got your nose laid over multiple times from other things – football or wrestling cattle, whatever it was. So, it’s just, it’s actually kind of cool when you think about.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah. And you know what, at least you’ve got some cool battleground stories to tell about why. Like a lot of women just, they either are straight up told you’re ugly or they are just straight up told you’re fat or they’re straight up shown pictures of what perfect looks like. We understand our reality based on words and comparison. That’s how we understand differences and that, when it’s internalized and internalized and perceived as negative and associated with your self-worth and your value, it’s debilitating. And it’s also something we’re not allowed to really talk about, or it’s been very recent that we’ve been able to talk about it and be accepting of it and start really broadening the definition of what beauty is. And it’s not about what your face looks like or your body looks like. It’s about what are you doing out there in the world? How are we moving the needle forward on accepting each other? And like you said, rising the tide together. Then that’s been a driver for me because I’ve been the one to give the hug in so many of those conversations.
Neil Dudley: So, what did you do in corporate beauty world?
Lacey Haegan: I spent the majority of the time on the sales floor, one-on-one with the clients. Yeah. Even when I was the manager of the department, I still spent a lot of times with the client, and I spent a lot of time with the women who were there to help the client. And it was always about boosting confidence and validating their worth. And it was empowering and exhausting at the same time. And it’s just rampant, the power, the hold it has on women in general.
Neil Dudley: How do you start unraveling that? I mean, this now seems to be like the most important thing you and I could talk about and get out there to people is not even- yeah, everybody, men that have daughters and wives and this kind of thing, let’s help them. I mean, it sounds like I would just want to say quit worrying about it. Well, you can’t just do that. So, what are some real, do you have tools or I don’t know, help me think about what am I going to say to my girls when they come home or somebody calls me fat or somebody called me too skinny or somebody said I was ugly or somebody said my feet were big. Like, how do you respond to that? I just, all I know is love. I love you. And even in that, I think I might be messing up some, probably not as bad as I would otherwise trying to explain it away. Anyway, sorry. Tell me what you think.
Lacey Haegan: I don’t have a great answer for that, but I love the question. And I think that that is such a powerfully necessary question to address. And I love what you said. Like I tell you, I love you. And that’s the first thing everybody needs to hear – I love you, you’re valuable, and I see your worth. And I do know that one of the most comfortable ways to address this question, or when somebody comes to you, and we’re lucky when we have the opportunity and they share it, because a lot of times there’s so much shame in it, we just hold it inside and we never talk about it. But if we’re lucky enough that they verbalize, hey, I just endured this nasty mean comment, stabilize it with no, here’s your value. But the easiest, most comfortable thing that seems to happen is like, oh no, you’re not. Oh, don’t let that bother you. Oh, they’re just jealous. Oh no, we quickly brush it away and it cliche. But if we start saying tell me more about that. Tell me how that makes you feel. Would you identify that more as anger, fear? Do you feel it anywhere? Does it make your stomach hurt? Do you think it’s true? What would you have liked that they said to you? Did you have a chance to say anything back to them? Like, actually deep dive into that conversation and kind of like the boogeyman, like, no, let me turn the light on and show you there’s nothing in the closet. Let me deconstruct that comment and talk about- We are opening the conversation up more. It’s becoming more common to have this conversation. But it’s just like any conversation that’s uncomfortable. Like we just have to start trying to talk about it.
Neil Dudley: Just have that little thing in your mind that is kind of always playing – is this an opportunity for me to serve? Is this an opportunity for me to explore this with them? Oh, I think the female reality is very scary and interesting for me, especially with three daughters. I think you gals have so much coming at you from the world that’s trying to define what is the perfect female or how to be a mom, how to- like this mommy shaming thing, it’s real. It’s like absolutely real. People do it and don’t even know it. I mean, my example is we were playing cornhole in the yard, and we started up where it was like a competition and the winning team got to write their name on the board. Well, the second a girl was on the team, well, I made a coed section like, oh, here’s the co-ed, this is a less-than line because this all-men’s over here is more competitive. See, I didn’t, I just totally subconsciously did that, total diminishing of all females. Like, oh, co-ed has to be in a different line because the girls aren’t on the same level as the men. I kind of feel good that I recognize that and mention it because I think it’s wow, okay, cool, I can kind of think about avoiding that in the future.
Lacey Haegan: Well, and that’s so powerful because we all have neuropathways that have been established based on messages we’ve heard whether they were subconsciously heard or we just grew up hearing them. But when you can actively say, oh, that’s not me, like that’s old. And I just identified that that was just- I was in autopilot on that one-
Neil Dudley: Yeah. Well, it was totally me, but I don’t like that about me. Like I would like to do it a little differently.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah. And it’s that awareness and that willingness to make that adjustment that is what change is. And I remember being in grad school and we had a speaker talking about, he was an African American man, he was a professor, and he shared a story of got on an airplane and there was a- There were two pilots, a pilot and co-pilot, and the pilot was also African American. And he said, even I had a thought, like that fleeting thought, of doubt, but then I realized, wow, this thought is useless and completely unfounded and untrue. And I reframed my thought and my understanding by reminding myself that a Black man to become a pilot has to work so much harder than a white man has to work. So, by definition-
Neil Dudley: He’s probably the best there is.
Lacey Haegan: He’s probably the best there is, like I couldn’t be in better hands. And that’s re-framing is what is so powerfully needed and necessary. And if we all start practicing that, we’ll see change so fast. And people say like, well, what can I do? Well, the very least we can do is change our thoughts and how we catch ourselves and how we admit that, oh, shoot, that’s not, that doesn’t fly anymore. Like that’s not going to fly. I’m not going to buy into that, I’m going to do this instead. And that’s what it takes in my humble opinion.
Neil Dudley: I agree with you. I think I wish so many people would engage with this episode in a way that could tell us their thoughts, especially women. If you can, I don’t know, look the Cowboy Perspective up on Instagram. How would they find you if they want just talk to you about any of this conversation, but I think there’s a great potential here where any gals listening, see gals could be- I mean, I’m so sensitive to it now, is gals derogatory? Ladies, anybody out there that kind of experiences any of these things, feeling like you’re not beautiful, feeling like you’re less than, I’m feeling like your value is low, feeling like you’re getting mommy shamed, any of these things, you don’t raise your kids right, you don’t make them wear coats when it’s cold outside. I don’t know, who defined that you should be shameful for that. You’re doing your thing. That’s your mommy. You’re being the best there is to those kids.
Lacey Haegan: We’re all just doing our best. And you can find me on Instagram, and you can find me – I’m terrible at my personal account. So, if you message me there, I probably won’t see it for weeks.
Neil Dudley: So go to BEAUTE NOUVEAU on Instagram?
Lacey Haegan: Exactly. Or send me an email. You can go to my website. All of our contact information is there. And talk to me, talk to your friends, bring this conversation up.
Neil Dudley: See, but friends scare me, because I think a lot of times the friends are the ones doing the thing.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah, it could be. There’s rooms on Facebook, there’s groups, there’s like-minded people, there’s hashtags, there’s Clubhouse, there’s podcasts. There’s so many ways.
Neil Dudley: I’m so mad at Clubhouse, by the way – sorry everybody. It’s a major, it’s not on Android and I have an Android. I want to be a part of Clubhouse and I can’t do it. But I do think that what you’re saying is so important. Look, you might not have to talk to Neil or Lacey, but just have the thought in your brain, whatever you’re feeling needs to be addressed, not swept under the rug. And work on it.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah. Bring it up.
Neil Dudley: It’s work. It’s okay.
Lacey Haegan: If you are surrounded by people that you don’t feel you can have this conversation, it might be a little scary to go out and try to find a new tribe, but you have the right to find people who you align with. There are a lot of ways in this social media world to do that. And you are entitled to find your people who make you feel good. I mean, I remember starting my business and going to all these networking events and I’d be at these events with like realtors and accountants and “professionals.” And they say, oh, what do you do? And I’d say, oh, you know what, I’m a makeup artist and I’m starting a new skincare line. And they’d look at me like sideways, like how do I get out of this conversation? And like looking past me to see if there was somebody they could flag down to get out of this conversation. And I would leave feeling awful about myself, like worthless. And it wasn’t until like a year into it that I went, somebody invited me to a creative entrepreneur event. And I was like oh, my gosh, I have found my people! They were excited to hear what I was doing. And they wanted to do a photo shoot with me, and they wanted to do this and they wanted that, and they wanted to collaborate and be part of my world. And the two feelings were so different. So, if you’re fine feeling that, the group of people you are surrounded with are just not making you feel good, I guarantee you, there’s a different group of people out there who see you and see your value and are so excited to be a part of your life.
Neil Dudley: Absolutely. Okay, what’s the value of a dollar or a Bitcoin? How about that question? Do you own any Bitcoin?
Lacey Haegan: No, but you know what, my brother, who’s 12 years younger, I guess apparently when Bitcoin was a thing, he went to my dad and was like, “Dad, I need $5,000 for Bitcoin.” My dad was like, “You’re crazy. I’m not giving you anything. What are you talking about? A Bitcoin?” And he apparently a couple of months ago read an article about how, like, if you had bought a Bitcoin back then for $5,000, you’d have something like $800 million or something like that. I know that there’s the pain in that story of a Bitcoin. I don’t actually- my brother and people have tried to explain what a Bitcoin is to me about 50,000 times and I still can’t really wrap my brain around it. So, I don’t know what that value is. And I also don’t really know the value of a dollar is because I do remember being able to buy things really cheaply at one point. And now they’re like a lot of money, so I don’t exactly know what happened there. Sometimes I get really cheap on certain things. And then sometimes I’m like spend it all! So, I don’t really know.
Neil Dudley: Yeah. Well, hey, I love that perspective though. It is kind of crazy. Like sometimes I’ll find myself spending a thousand dollars on, I don’t know, something, promoting a Facebook ad or something, whatever it might be. And then somebody wants $5 for a piece of horse tack or something that I’m like, whoa, that’s ridiculous high. Why am I like that?
Lacey Haegan: Same, same. There’s some things, like I didn’t have a pair of scissors in my office for like a long time. I’m like, do you know how many times I need a pair of scissors? Like why don’t I just have a new pair of scissors? And I’d go to the store and I’d be like, I don’t know, eight bucks for a pair of scissors, that’s a lot. Meanwhile, I just spent $180 on some ink cartridges and well I need those. It’s so funny.
Neil Dudley: Totally. Well, a dollar it’s kind of this abstract thing to me, that provides leverage or opportunity, but it doesn’t buy time or a smile, or maybe a thing could make you smile if it’s a long-lasting kind of thing.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah. I think it’s the act of getting the thing that makes you smile, but then once you have it, it’s not always, there’s no smile like imprinted into it. I love that you say that because I do think that it’s an energetic tool that you can leverage for something else that you want. It’s like if you want to start a business, it helps to have some money. If you want to buy a house, helps to have some money. But you can also use the money in different ways. So, it’s also something that you can be really controlled by or have freedom in.
Neil Dudley: Yes, it’s so diametrical.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah. It’s almost diabolical in a way, too.
Neil Dudley: Yeah, that’s true. I mean, I find myself, I measure a lot of my success based on dollars, because I think it’s your tool, like in a basketball game, you get to measure with points, well we had more points- So, dollars is kind of like the point system in the business world. So, I catch myself watching those points a lot more than I should, because I also kind of believe comparison is not a really valuable thing. Are you really putting forth your hundred percent? If so, you’re going to get a great result. Who cares if Lacey’s hundred percent did a couple million more dollars of business then you’re hundred percent. It is just, she actually found her lane maybe a little better than what you found. Or does it even matter? There’s lots of philosophy in there. Okay, ladies, if you’re listening, please heed what Lacey’s been talking about. You are beautiful. You are loved. Don’t spend time focusing on anything other than that. Go check out her beauty line. The products are, well, I can’t really say this for sure, but we’re going to be testing them. And if I find out before this podcast goes live, that they’re crap, I’ll let you know. But I’ll bet money they’re really, really good.
Lacey Haegan: I believe that Neil will be honest with you.
Neil Dudley: Yes, that’s right. If anything, I feel like that’s the one thing you can always deliver on – honesty. And it could hurt somebody’s feelings. It could be there’s pain in honesty. There’s also like if you just know you’re getting honesty, you can kind of live with almost anything.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah. And on the flip side, I think there’s pain in dishonesty.
Neil Dudley: Yeah, sure. Wow. I love it. I enjoyed talking to you so much. I mean, I think we could probably talk for another couple of hours, and we should sometime.
Lacey Haegan: Yeah, I’d love it.
Neil Dudley: But you probably can’t do it all today. So, enjoy that beautiful San Diego weather you’re experiencing. I’m going to go back out to- actually, we’re having a thaw in Texas, so it should be getting a lot better out there now. And until next time, do your thing, you’re doing it great and I appreciate you for it.
Lacey Haegan: Thank you. I so appreciate you. This was an honor and a pleasure, and wow, I’m really, really grateful and appreciative that you have created this platform and you invited me, and we had this amazing conversation.
Neil Dudley: Lacey, I’m hoping you listen back to this, and I want to say thank you to you. I probably have said it a couple of times already, but after listening back through our conversation, and now that we’ve had some people out there in the wide, wide world of America, and well, I guess the globe, hear what you have to say and your perspective, I so much appreciate it. Thank you for imparting your knowledge, your thoughts, and experiences, just giving us all a chance to learn from them. I definitely did. So, I hope the listeners out there, if you’re listening, go check Lacey out, check out her business. We’ll link it to the show. We’ll link all those things in the show notes. If you get a chance, try out her products. Stacey and I were lucky enough to get some from her, and Stacey and the girls have really enjoyed them. Thanks everybody. Until next time, God bless.
The Cowboy Perspective is produced by Neil Dudley and Straight Up podcasts. Graphics are done by Root & Roam Creative Studio. And the music is by Byron Hill Music.