Neil Dudley: The Cowboy Perspective, well, it might be hard to define, but I guarantee if you think about it, you’ve got one in mind. Whether you’re building a legacy, an empire, or a fan base, I bet when your friends look at you, they see some cowboy in your face. Y’all come along, let’s talk about this or that. Maybe when we’re done, you’ll go away with another perspective to put under your hat.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much. If you’re listening to this, you must be joining the Cowboy Perspective podcast and giving me a chance, my guests a chance to just share a little bit of what our experience has been like in life and business and family and faith, all those things. I really appreciate you giving us that opportunity. Today’s guest is one I just really appreciate, look up to, like for a million different reasons. Maybe the best example of that would be just today, I looked at his social media or maybe it was Teddy’s Brewhaus social media, and it said something like this: Somebody told me don’t bite off more than you can chew. Well, I’d rather choke on greatness than nibble on mediocrity. That explains this guy’s perspective pretty well I think. I’m really excited for you to meet, get to know, and hear about Mr. Jeff Tucker. So, let’s get to it. Thanks for listening. Give us a like, review, all those things; you know what to do. Johnny, let’s hit it. Yee-haw!
Hey, everybody, TCP Nation, I like to call you, I appreciate your listening so much. And here we are again with another awesome guest, a guy that I have enjoyed learning from and been involved with on several different things. And I just know his perspective is awesome. It’s probably not the same as everybody, and that’s great. That’s part of what the Cowboy Perspective is here to do is give you insight into successful people that have vision into a lot of different industries, aspects of living, that are important to us. So, I could ramble a while, and I’m going to stop now. Jeff, welcome to the show. Thanks. And let’s do that thing. Just tell everybody who you are, where you are, where you came from, and just a baseline understanding of who you are, and then let’s dive into the-
Jeff Tucker: Sure. Well, I appreciate the honor to get to talk with you and your guests. Well, I’m head janitor now down here at Teddy’s Brewhaus.
Neil Dudley: Yeah. Oh, by the way, we are sitting at, I guess you mentioned it was your nightmare.
Jeff Tucker: Yeah, welcome to the nightmare.
Neil Dudley: So, we’re sitting in the nightmare, and that’s really not a very good explanation of what it is. It’s a beautiful old historic building in Brownwood, Texas, that Jeff’s now brewing beer in.
Jeff Tucker: Yeah, man, we’re doing a little bit of everything. We’ve got an event center here where we’ve hosted as many as 400 people and then guests for that down to 20 people at a birthday party. We handcraft beer here. We’ve got seven labels that we create, and we’ve also got in-house wine that we do and creating some ciders. The funny thing is when we- it’s a two-year journey. We spent two years rehabbing and doing renovation on this property through Texas Historic Society and National Park Services. And literally we just got our marker last month in spite of the pandemic where we’re now recognized as both a Historic Site of Texas and National Parks of the Interior. So, it’s pretty cool. But yeah, I tell everybody I’m head janitor around here, so they don’t really know that I’m the boss man. I can always point to somebody else for that.
Neil Dudley: I mean, I’m thinking the name of the company is escaping me, but it’s a chicken company, it’s a franchise, and everybody’s business card says fry cook.
Jeff Tucker: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we do it all. But it it’s been kind of a labor of love. And really my first career was as a firefighter in Fort Worth, spent 20 years with that, and 10 years in operations and 10 years as an arson bomb investigator and then retired from there and started some businesses in Fort Worth. And then Tracy and I decided to kind of get back to what we grew up in. I’m from Palo Pinto originally, that county, and she’s from Canyon, Texas. And so, we wanted to kind of bring our kids back to, frankly, rural America before they grew up and didn’t get a taste of it. So, we’ve been out here now about 10 years, out in a little ranch outside of Mayfair.
Neil Dudley: Cool. So, you mentioned growing up in Palo Pinto. Did you have brothers, sisters, parents? What was that like? Like, I feel like a lot of our, who we kind of end up having a chance to be comes from that childhood. What was that like?
Jeff Tucker: Well, my Granddad was, they were sharecroppers up in Spearman, Texas, and they moved down to, they were going to raise three families on a bait shop on Possum Kingdom Lake. So, I was literally born in Rock Creek Camp out there. They took me to delivery in Mineral Wells and brought me back. And then we grew up around that, and my granddad went on to become a foreman at the Kimberlin Ranch, which is right there below the Possum Kingdom Damn, a great little ranch down there. So, I really cut my teeth on ranching in that area and learning that trade. And daddy went on to be, of course, he was a high school dropout at Spearman, Texas, had to really take over the ranch at one time and the sharecropping up there with Leroy. And then what happened was after we came down to the bait camp, there was a guy that kept coming in every second day to fish and getting bait from the bait shop. And Daddy asked him one day, he said “What do you do for a living that you can fish so much?” It really kind of blew his mind. I think Jackie was about 17 or 18 at that time. They started younger then with families. But he said, “Well, I’m a fireman in Irving.” And he asked if they were hiring because, frankly, we were starving. And he became a fireman there in Irving and went on to be a career firefighter there in Irving for 33 years. But we were always either back and forth or in the mainstay. I spent really most of my summers down there at Kimberlin Ranch and around PK. So eventually at some point, we moved to Irving when I was young, but never lost that tether back to Palo Pinto County.
Neil Dudley: Cool. Well, isn’t it so interesting how life evolves? I mean, from a bait camp to a fireman to now you’re a fireman. Just, there’s such a similar story for even me. I mean, it’s just funny how I feel like God paints this path for you, and you don’t always know where it’s going to go or end up.
Jeff Tucker: True. Where the winds blow, we tend to kind of, I tend to kind of hoist sail and go where the winds carry me.
Neil Dudley: Yeah. Okay so, let’s talk now a little bit about the different businesses you’ve built and experiences through-
Jeff Tucker: How much time have you got?
Neil Dudley: We got all the time we need. And that’s where I think- I enjoy that. Like even if the listeners – sorry, listeners, you might not appreciate this – but even if you get nothing, I’m getting something and I’m selfish in that way. So, let’s talk about it.
Jeff Tucker: Sure. Well, I mean, so I really, gosh, I’ve been labeled a serial entrepreneur and I think that’s a polite way of saying I’ll try anything. After I got out of high school, college wasn’t really an option for me. So, I got on the fire department at a young age; I was 19. And I was looking at several options. I was looking at trying to be of service in the Marine Corps, had gone down there and tested for it. It ended up being the Fort Worth fire department called me first, and I went there. But as I was a firefighter, one of the things that that gave me is because of the shift work that we had, 24 on and 48 off, it gave me a lot of free time to do other things. So, I tended to venture off into where my self-interest was. Some of that was we began painting houses, and then it got into construction, I dabbled in welding a little bit. But I always had a side hustle, and so I was always doing things like that and trying to kind of find that thing that was doing two things, both fulfillment for the pocketbook but also fulfillment for self. And over time, those things parlayed into independent businesses that I did there in Fort Worth. I retired in ’01. So, I put in 20 years and got out. A lot of guys are just now retiring that went into the academy with me then. But I really wanted to kind of at some point do some things where I was really ultimately in control. So, we built, at that time, back in, gosh, this would be when Bush was coming out and Obama was coming in, which was a hell of a time to open a business back then, but we’d bought three acres of land there strategically in Fort Worth, and we built a training facility on it for both adults and kids. So, we were doing youth sports training, gymnastics, cheerleading, ballet. We were doing physical training for adults. And that parlayed into a CrossFit gymnastics gig that we ran for literally up until last June. So, we did that for about 12 years. So, I was kind of always, if an opportunity struck and the iron was hot, we struck on it to build something out of it. And what’s happened over time – of course, I’m giving you the broad strokes here because you really don’t have enough time for all this – but what happened over time is we parlayed businesses into things that, frankly, if we hadn’t done it, we’d have failed – opening up in ’08, which was a really hard time.
Neil Dudley: Yeah, the financial crisis was happening right then.
Jeff Tucker: And I had signed my name to the greatest debt that I’d ever had in my life. I mean, we were 1.25 million in debt from the get-go, so we had to perform.
Neil Dudley: Where do you get the gumption to just do that?
Jeff Tucker: We were ignorant. Blissfully ignorant. But, yeah, but I mean, we knew there was risk, but we also felt that the payoff was there, and we had done our research where, you spend money on your kids. I spend money on my kids. They want to go do a sport. Great, how can we help them get there? And so that’s kind of what we did. And so, we just kind of looked at it from a standpoint of our business model was focused around kids. 500 of our clients were children in Fort Worth. And in the periphery were the adults – mom and dad didn’t have anything to do while their kid was working out for an hour and a half, so we gave them a facility to work out. So, we built things from there, but it parlayed into other specific niche markets like CrossFit. At that time, we were number 278 affiliate. And they grew to as many as 15,000 over a decade. And then when we were teaching a seminar globally for them, that parlayed into one of the most successful subject matter expert components they had. So yeah, we just kind of kept building on what we were given.
Neil Dudley: So, let’s talk about CrossFit gymnastics a little bit. One thing that stands out to me, we’re not- I don’t know you real well, but I know a little bit, and I follow you on Instagram. I pay attention to what you’re up to on social media.
Jeff Tucker: I’m so sorry.
Neil Dudley: I wouldn’t apologize. I would advise everybody, go follow Jeff a little bit. You have a component to your personality or what you put out there on social media that is valuable to me. I think about your life a little bit and is that balanced? You’ll talk about, well, you’re walking, you’re now kind of targeting some things for your own health. Anyways, so back to the CrossFit piece, just everybody go check out Jeff Tucker. Is that what it is on-?
Jeff Tucker: Well, it’s now, we turned that over to call it thegymnasticscourse.com. But before that it was CrossFit gymnastics, or just recently, I mean, CrossFit itself has changed dramatically in the last year during the pandemic. But yeah, thegymnasticscourse.com is where it’s at now.
Neil Dudley: Sure. But anyways, what I was really getting to was your network of people you know and friends you have. And that’s, I think, kind of a common theme in almost anybody I talked to, that successful guys and gals seem to always have a knack for building a network and leveraging that network, not being afraid to provide value to the network and then also ask for value back. So, in the CrossFit gymnastics space, while you were building that, and so how does that kind of play? And I’m kind of thinking of Robb Wolf, Melissa, how do you end up meeting those kinds of people?
Jeff Tucker: It’s funny. I met Robb Wolf in ’08 when he was a head trainer for CrossFit and he came over, we were, I was pouring some sugar in coffee, and he goes, “You’d be better to pour that heavy cream in there then the sugar.” And I said, “Oh really?” And then that’s how our conversation went, and I think he was politely calling me fat. I’m not really sure. But Robb and I’ve become really, really great friends, and I have been on his podcast several times over the years. But the guy’s got a, I mean, his credentials are incredible. He’s got a PhD in chemistry. He’s a brilliant young man, but he’s also a commonsense guy. And if you go talk to him, he’s going to tell you lay off the carbs, go more protein and beef broth and things like that. So, it just literally started there. And I think it was kind of like we were- there’s a duality of even all of those people you mentioned, or Bill Henniger from Rogue. I had an NFL player call me the other day, like, “How the hell do you know Bill Henniger?” And I said, “Well, I helped him move plates in the 2009 games.” So, I said, “I just, I was a workhorse.” But you do. I think genuine people want success for everybody in the room. So, the ones that you mentioned, I even helped Melissa in Dallas get their first book contract, and then to see what Melissa has done with it over the years, specifically with Whole Foods, or not Whole Foods, but Whole30, has been really impressive. And about the only thing I could do now is just kind of compliment or chastise her on her handstand pushups. But I’ve watched these people grow, and they tend to be the ones that if you ever reach out again, they’re there for you. So those networking, that relationship, it’s an organic thing, but it is, I would have never planned the life that I’ve got right now, Neil. It’s just kind of been circumstance sometimes, sometimes luck, and sometimes sitting back and looking at that whiteboard going, okay, well, how can I build a bridge here? How can I relate to their community or them to us? And it really gets down to it, I know it is said over and over, it’s a cliche, but a rising tide lifts all boats.
Neil Dudley: It’s just absolutely true. Let it be true. It’s okay. It’s a cool reality actually. So now all we need to do is figure out how to rise the tide, and then we all get to go up with it. Is there any- I don’t know, paint a picture of something you really learned from that somebody might call a failure or you might call a failure, you might say man- Do you think of life as having failures?
Jeff Tucker: Absolutely. I tend to see, okay, like first off, I’m human. So, I’m like, I think like a lot of people in that I do want people to like me. My wife says I’m an acquired taste. So, I think that’s an indirect insult, but anyway. But you do want people to like you. I think you want people to like what you’re doing, but there comes a point too where you realize that if you’re trying to please everyone, or you’re trying to get everybody to like you, that’s where you’re doing yourself a disservice if you’ve got a specific goal in mind. So as far as failures go, I tend to look at them, and I’ve had them, I’ve had them in business. Gosh, people would look at this most recent venture where we spent two years getting a renovation done, be open for a month and a half, and a pandemic hit, how the hell did you survive? Well, frankly, we failed politely for six months. We were- it’s batting down the hatches and everybody gets to their posts, and let’s see what we can do to get through this. It’s certainly not the numbers that we wanted to see as far as revenue coming in for the investment portfolio, so some would see that as a failure. I tend to see it as a learning experience more than a failure. So, I look at failures, whether it be personal or business, like okay, I’ve mis-stepped here, I need to back up and check myself. What did I do wrong? And really break it down. And if you can set your pride and ego aside, which I’ve gotten better at over time – I’m certainly not perfect at it – that’s where I tend to sit back and analyze and go, okay, what do I need to do next time that would prevent me from making the same mistake? And that can be in business and personal life. And I think they’re both applicable.
Neil Dudley: Yeah, totally. And that’s another pretty consistent theme from people I talk to for the podcast. It is very much like look, it’s a learning experience. It’s inevitable. If you’re trying, some things won’t work. If you’re just not trying, you’re kind of sitting in the corner, playing it safe, you might manage to make it. But if you’re out there in the game, so to speak, you’re going to have some stumbles.
Jeff Tucker: Well, it’s interesting. One of my degrees is history, and matter of fact, I’m literally next week defending my thesis for the history degree for a masters at TCU. And so, I tend to look at things through a historical perspective, too. And I always kind of fall back to Abraham Lincoln. And if you’ve ever looked at his history and seen how many times he failed, and yet, what he eventually accomplished before his death, it’s an incredible story. But that is a theme – Andrew Jackson, same thing, Martin Luther King, same thing. There is an overwhelming amount of history out there before us that if we could look at that, you can always glean something from it. But I see failure as just part of life. I hate to start over. I don’t want to do that. I hate that for whatever the failure is at that moment, that it has the impact that it does. But it’s a check and balance thing. And I think if you ignore it and to learn from it, that’s where you make your fatal mistake.
Neil Dudley: Now, so let’s explore just as we kind of jaunt around, why Teddy’s Brewhaus? Why the name and then why even do it?
Jeff Tucker: Well, okay, so I had, when we retired out here from Fort Worth – I say retired, I used that as a semantic phrase, I don’t think I’ll ever retire – but we had moved from Fort Worth to here, bought the ranch, and I was really kind of pouring myself into improving the land there. And it’s kind of like Lyle Lovett once said, heaven knows, I ain’t no cowboy, but I’ve tried. And so, I was kind of getting back to my roots, and I wanted the kids to see what it was like to have that life, to help create and bring life in the world through cattle and horses, etc., and just let them see what it’s like to be out in an area that’s quiet. Fort Worth is not really a quiet town. And it’s been good. It’s been a good 10 years there. But why Teddy’s, I was looking for a project for several years that I could kind of pour myself into here in Brownwood. And some of that too comes from a standpoint of, no matter what I do, there’s always a service aspect to it. I’m really, I joke about being head janitor, but I clean the bathrooms. I’ll help do dishes. I’ll also be out front of the house. I’ll make beer. I’m not afraid to work. But we wanted to do something that brought service to the community. And so, I saw nothing but opportunity in this town. And I saw things that were lacking that existed in other places. And when we found on this building, which was, they call it the old Weakley Watson building, originally built by Robert Hurlbut in 1888. So, it’s been a hardware store by two owners and a gun store by another and agricultural development. So, when you look at all the history, that attracted me to the building. So, we bought the building and then we renovated it. And the reason we went with Teddy’s is that’s my history background – I’ve written several papers on Teddy Roosevelt, just way impressed with him as an iconic figure, another flawed figure also, who had failures. But I just was way impressed with his history. He loved Texas. He loved ranching. He certainly was a cowboy in his own right and earned that and became one by sheer will up in the Badlands and during a tough time. So, we thought the name of Teddy’s Brewhaus was apropos for the internal business itself. When people come into the old Weakley Watson building, they still see the homage paid to Weakley Watson, which it should be. I mean, 1876, he came in here established. It is still considered the oldest gun store in Texas by establishment. But then I tend to look at that and go, 1876 where they established here, that’s just a few years really, a couple of decades or so after the Alamo. And then 1876, if you look at the Battle of Little Bighorn, so there’s a lot of great history going on there. And so, what we do is we try to be true to both what was existing in the community and then add a flavor to it that people, because they come in and go, who is Teddy? And I say, well, if you look on the wall, he’s right there. So, we’ve kind of used him as an iconic figure for the branding, and ultimately people get it. And then they’re like, okay, this is cool.
Neil Dudley: There you go. You touched on something I think you’re great at, branding. Not just with Teddy’s, but with CrossFit gymnastics, with just your ranch. Where did you kind of come across that skill set or is it just-?
Jeff Tucker: Some people say I’m a BS artist, but the reality is it’s just things I’m passionate about. And so, we’re passionate about this particular business. We’re passionate about it. And it’s a long game; it’s not a short game. We know that it’s not going to happen overnight. We know it’s going to take time. But we’re strategic about that. So, I mean, even a lot of people won’t do Texas Historic Renovations because they hear it’s so hard. And they’re so hard to deal with. Well, the reality is they’re just a set of guidelines and rules you got to follow. But does it take more time? Yes. So, if you’re willing to let that investment be something that you’re willing to wait on, well, the beauty of it is, is there’s income tax credits that are there by both federal and Texas state statute, and there’s also performance tax credits. So, you turn around and you drop a million dollars into an investment, you’re going to end up getting 25% of that back in performance tax credits that you can sell. So, there’s a recoup of money. And then you’ve got the existing business model that you want to set up and brand and build too. So, to your question about branding, for me, it’s just about, well, I’m passionate about this brand and we want to do it. Eventually, we’ll do distribution. There’s not anything to prevent us from creating another Revolver beer, that model. So that’s the future for us is to say, okay, we’ve got six or seven really great baseline brews. We’ll develop that into future distribution, which could develop into store sales at HEB or United or whatever. And so that’s the long game. The short game is how do we take care of the community at large, who also takes care of us. And I think you do that by, you build your brand by doing something like we did last week – somebody came in and said, “Hey, we’ve got 45 people, and we want to have a birthday party.” Well, hey, come on in. How do we help you? How do we not overcharge you? How do we make it good for you? And that helps build your brand too.
Neil Dudley: That’s awesome. I mean, I’m sitting here, well, I sit on the board at Bacon Bash, which you’ve helped us with, been judge for, we’ve even talked about other things. You’re going to have an event here April 24th, and we might be able to partner up in that way. See here, we’re working on our network on each other a little bit, which is kind of fun. It’s cool. I’m excited about it. And this venue I even wrote down here, Bacon Bash has a thing called Ball of the Bash, which is kind of a white tablecloth, more exclusive thing. This to me would be a great place to have a Ball of the Bash.
Jeff Tucker: Oh, we’d be honored to do that.
Neil Dudley: Anyway, so there’s so many ways we could work together if we just spend a second or two talking. I think humans sometimes just pass right by the good conversation that could be so valuable. So, everybody listening, just have that conversation. Not every one of them are going to turn into something monetarily for you, but they might turn into just perspective that’s valuable to you for how you might talk to your kids about something or your wife or even yourself. Just give yourself a little credit for- The team I work with accuses me of having imposter syndrome a lot. I don’t want to give myself the credit that this podcast is valuable, it’s doing something. Ah, you know, it’s just two people listening, and one of them is my mom. But actually, people enjoy this, and I’m glad they do, and I want to keep adding to it.
Jeff Tucker: Let me just say something to that before you jump on. So, to your credit, like one of the things I saw pop up in my feed on your post one day, and I said absolutely; I think I said damn right. And you have a message out there, and it’s important to share it, because there is mutual benefit to that. And you, I haven’t known you long, but I mean, I think people like you and I tend to be more self-deprecating and not realize the reach that we have. And the beauty of it is if you’re of service, it doesn’t matter how big you are of service. I mean, if you’re being of service, to me, there’s no higher calling in life. So yeah, don’t shine past it. Know that you’re doing something that’s good here.
Neil Dudley: Oh yeah, I mean, even me just talking is me trying. See, I’m testing myself a little bit. Everybody, you should test yourself if you want to get better at something. I’m kind of holding myself accountable to putting it on the podcast – hey, I’m not good at this, I need to be a little better. Because we could all just grow. And success is different for everybody. The thing we talk about on here as being success could be financially, it could be happiness, just choosing to be happy and how you find that. I have a question for you – I want to talk about how you decompress because I would bet you’re wound pretty tight.
Jeff Tucker: Yeah, like a seven-day clock.
Neil Dudley: I think that’s valuable. Most people that are entrepreneurial tend to be wound pretty tight. Anyways, geez, this is- I’m thinking of 59 things that we left back there to talk about. So, let’s go ahead and just for a second explore, like, how do you decompress? What do you do for that?
Jeff Tucker: I think there’s a lot of things. Let me tell you what gives me the greatest joy, like it is truly just selfish in me, there’s nothing more fun than wetting a hook. I mean, going out and fishing, I could- The new place that we just got has a little three-acre bass pond on it, and it’s a self-made ravine that nobody did, just water collected there. Now over time, people were putting some really great bass in there. But to me, there’s nothing more fun than going back there and tossing that line. And so, I do a lot of fly fishing, not as much as I used to just due to recent business, but I do a lot of fly fishing and fishing. But if I can go back to that pond, I can get my mind right. And that goes way, way, way back.
Neil Dudley: It makes me think of your childhood.
Jeff Tucker: Yeah, it does. I mean, I can remember the first time we did a trout line out at PK, and I can remember my granddad griping about how much frozen shrimp were, I’d give anything for that price right now. But yeah, there was something about that that was, it was many things. It was- And somebody asked me the other day, like, what’s your favorite scent? And I said a skunk, and they’re like you’re kidding me. And I’m like, well, there’s a memory tied to that. So, out hunting with Dad and getting sprayed by a skunk one time was a memory that endeared me to that aroma, if you will. But it’s the same thing with fishing. I decompress. When I get that hook out in the water, I don’t care if I catch anything. I don’t care if I get a bump. And then if I get a five pounder, hey, it’s a good day. But there’s also something else I think beyond that. I took my son out there recently, and he literally caught his first big, big fish. He caught a six-pound bass out of there to the dial. And I asked him, I said- and I throw them back now. Of course, I know grown men that would cry over a six-pound bass. Here he is 16, and he’s like, “What are we going to do with it?” And I said, “Well, I normally toss them back. We’ll catch him again.” He goes, “I want to eat it.” So, there’s something about that too. There’s the fact that, if you go to the Bible, be fishermen of men. And yet he was also saying, there was something about casting the net, surviving, the subsistence of the land to table to mouth to nutrition to growth. So, I look at it as very, such a basic thing that we take for granted now that, what it means to go out and be able to survive on your own and catch a fish and give thanks for that fish, give thanks for the meal to come. So yeah, those are the things that if I need instant relief, that’s it. Outside of that, I’ll go work out. I’ll go walk or workout. If I could get in a good saddle on a good horse, there’s nothing fonder to me than that too, just even if it’s new country. Gosh, we went out to the Cibolo Ranch here a couple of years ago and spent a week out there. And it was neat to go outside of that – you got to know an oasis in the middle of nowhere. I mean, Marfa, Texas, is not a cool place to be in my mind. It was a great place to film Giant, I guess. But when you go to those, again, a historical pocket that they took an oasis and made it into a ranch, you have an appreciation for that dedication. So, things like that tend to- And if it’s not that, then I can always turn on a Ken Burns documentary and watch history.
Neil Dudley: Yeah, sure. Well, I think I’m not a big history buff. It’s just part of me, I mean, I don’t even know a lot of our family history. It doesn’t stick with me. I just am turned a different way. But I appreciate people that are, because that’s a thing, like I can lean on you for that. So, like if we’re together, I can lean on you for the history piece because I know I’m not going to- I just don’t carry it with me all the time.
Jeff Tucker: Well, to that end, I’ll say something like I have people all the time that, especially since we’ve gotten into Teddy Roosevelt, they ask me, “Hey, what’s a good Teddy book to read?” And there’s some great historians out there. The River of Doubt, which is a fantastic book. And it basically is, it’s the thing that killed Teddy Roosevelt, but it’s a great story. This is a man who carried morphine with him in case he needed to overdose to kill himself. But they go into an undiscovered river in Brazil. I mean, he becomes overnight a geographical archeologist of a river that didn’t exist. So anyway, I mean, things like- The beauty of history is it’s just, it’s out there for the taking. A book can go a long way.
Neil Dudley: There’s so much value in the history, and it’s sad that I don’t hold on to it a little better than I do.
Jeff Tucker: Well, your history is pretty impressive. I mean, my grandfather, I’ve got the records of him. I didn’t realize – well, on my mother’s side – I didn’t realize he came from Comanche until about last year. And I’ve got his card where he was working under FDR, under the workforce commission out there. But basically, they were gypsies trying to stay alive. But your history too is so rooted back in that Dudley Ranch and how far back it goes. It’s pretty impressive stuff, man.
Neil Dudley: Well, I enjoy it. Like I knew my granddad, so that much history is really like ingrained in me. I know that well. It’s kind of even just going further back than that, I don’t have a real good understanding of it.
Jeff Tucker: Yeah. I’ll challenge you to dig into.
Neil Dudley: I should, and I deserve those challenges because I guarantee some of my family listening is like, Neil, why are you saying that? We love our heritage. And I do, sure. I mean, I don’t love it. I’m just saying honestly, if you want me to paint it for you, I can’t do it.
Quick pause just to say I hope you know who Peterson Natural Farms is. If you don’t, go check them out, www.petersonsfarms.com. If you have any questions, hit me up. I’ve been working with Peterson’s and my best friend since kindergarten and his wife and my wife and a whole bunch of other really great people for about 20 years now, building a brand and a bunch of products that we think really add value to people’s healthy lifestyles. And I like to say the Cowboy Perspective podcast is a labor of love that I’ve kind of do in my spare time. And I hope to just bring value, tell stories about people that affect me and give me the perspective I have. And I don’t want to steal that labor of love line from Mr. Douglas Burdett, the host of the Marketing Book podcast without giving him some credit. There’s another something I’d tell you. If you are into building a brand or an entrepreneur of any sort, salesperson of any sort, go listen to the Marketing Book podcast. He reviews great authors’ books about sales and marketing. So, Peterson Natural Farms, go check them out. Thank you for listening to the Cowboy Perspective. Here’s some more.
Okay, folks, I got to tell you about Root & Roam Creative Studio. In full disclosure, it is a company that my wife is CEO and founder of so I am going to be slightly biased in the way that I think she’s brilliant. But in all fairness and without bias, I will tell you, her and the team there know what marketing is. They know how to tell a story and help you tell your story. So, if you’re looking to build a brand, sell a product, really about anything, there is a piece of marketing that goes with it that helps people know your story, who you are, and how they can interact with you. So over at Root & Roam Creative Studio, what they say is we inspire brands to make bold moves, to be the best version of themselves, to explore uncharted territories, to tell their stories. If you’re out there looking to do those things, please check out www.rootandroamcreative.com. I promise you they’ll love to help you and you’ll be proud that you did. Thanks for listening. Back to the action.
Okay, I’ve wrote a few notes here as we’ve been talking. So, let’s circle back to some of these things I just kind of picked up on as we have gone through this conversation. Big thinking, I feel like everything you do, there’s bigger things coming that you see for it. Like just now you’re talking about we can put out a brew, we could be the next Revolver, who says you can’t be the next Budweiser. There’s no- So how do you get in that head space? I want people to know, have some tool, that they could say, oh, life is bigger; it can be bigger.
Jeff Tucker: Yeah. Okay so, let me use the Revolver comment for a moment. So, actually, he was a year or two older than me at Irving high school, the owner of Revolver, Doug, and he and I even talked before we opened this. So, I reached out to him. I said, “Look, you’re not going to remember me, but we’ve got some same traffic that we had back in high school.” And I said, “I’ve watched you with great success. So, I want to kind of know, give me some thoughts here about what you think on the draft side versus the bottling side,” things like that. So, I think, one, that networking and not being afraid to make that call. I mean, here’s the president of a company, like you’re not really going to call him? Well yeah, I’m going to call him.
Neil Dudley: And how did he react?
Jeff Tucker: Oh, he was really gracious. I mean, super gracious. And of course, he didn’t remember me and I didn’t expect him to, but we knew some of the same people. We talked about old high school days and stuff. I said, “Look, my thing is I need an hour of your time.” And I tend to do that, too – if I can be of service, I try to do it where I can. So that networking is out there for the taking. I think a lot of people get in their own way. Don’t be afraid to reach out. Don’t be afraid to give a call. And if you get turned down, don’t be afraid to call again. And I try not to do it to the point of being a nuisance. But I tend to find out that more, like 9.5 times out of 10, people are going to say, hey, I’ve been there, so let me help you. I think that’s the first thing. I think the second thing is, is don’t be afraid to dream big, but plan small. So, the way I look at this particular property, look, we are a microbrewery is what we are, but it doesn’t mean that I can’t go acquire more space and land to create double capacity. So, what do you have to do first? Well, you got to have a beer first. So, that means you got to have a recipe first. I mean, we went so far as to go to Germany in Nuremberg and sit down and compare recipes we had to theirs, and then we sourced equipment out of Germany to come here. So, all that sounds like, to some, it would sound as though it’s unfathomable to make that kind of a step, but sometimes those are the steps you’ve got to make, for our approach, because ours was more of a German approach to brewing But you can also be like a Shiner Bock. I mean, think about what Shiner Bock has done for the town, Shiner. And that started with somebody just deciding to, hey, I’m going to start brewing beer. I think a lot of people, like if you look at the TMBC laws right now, and as much as I have read history, it is daunting to me to go through that legislation. But there are third-party people that you could hire to help you through it. And so, if you can find those resources and reach out to them and not be afraid to pursue it, and it doesn’t mean you’ve got to have a lot of money, because you don’t. You can start small. And if you’ll do that and build it, then just be in it for the long game. This get rich quick, let me say this right – get rich, quick thing can happen, but that’s not the norm. You might’ve been smart enough to get in Bitcoin here about four weeks ago. But hey, if you didn’t, okay, well that’s bad on you. But still doesn’t, there’s no guarantee.
Neil Dudley: Well, I mean, and Bitcoins, I don’t understand- I try to stay away from things I don’t understand. There was a lot of opportunity there to make a million dollars or whatever, but man, I don’t understand it. I tend to be a product – if I see a product I feel is awesome and underleveraged or undermarketed, that’s when I get really excited because-
Jeff Tucker: So, see here’s what I think, Neil, and I’ll use me as an example. So, I put a post out one day about Bitcoin about three or four weeks ago, and I got inundated with private messages and all this stuff and all this wealth of information, and it was cool. It was cool to use social media for that. So, I got a little bitcoin. I didn’t get like a whole coin, but I got a little bit. But hey, it’s done well; it’s gone up 400% since then. So, I thought, gosh, why didn’t I get more? And so, I could wallow in that, or I could be like, well, hey, I’ve learned something here. But I’m also like you, that I tend to be hands-on, I want to feel the product. I want to have the product. There’s a wealth of things that I fully don’t understand about Bitcoin. I mean, do I think cryptocurrency is going in the right direction? Yeah. Have I watched every documentary I can on it? Yeah. Have I dug into the reading on it? Yeah. Do I haven’t figured out? No. But I know what I do have figured out. I know that, like even this table we’re sitting on, we took old, reclaimed lumber and remade this table, we reused the thing for the floors. Those are tangible things. And when people walk in and go, hey, that’s cool. Well, will they tell 10 people? Yeah. Will that make me rich? No. But it’s the long game – it’s going to build and build and build.
Neil Dudley: You say the long game a lot, and I think that’s- I hope people are picking up on that. You’ll hear it called the long tale. I mean, it’s just, there’s way, a lot of road in front of it and we’re not guaranteed another day but-
Jeff Tucker: Well, I’m going to play it like I got more than one day.
Neil Dudley: That’s right; you have to. If you are going to plan only one day, I don’t even know what you would leverage or how you would-
Jeff Tucker: Isn’t that what insurance is for
Neil Dudley: There’s another little common theme through this conversation I keep hearing, and that’s service, and I think that- I don’t know really where that stems from. I perceive it comes from your firefighter roots because that’s very service kind of livelihood. Talk about that a little bit.
Jeff Tucker: That of all things, that’s probably the hardest for me to talk about. It goes back to my dad. He really was, he was a true, I mean, I’ve got photographs of him at age 16, standing in, he was on a Texas agriculture magazine with my grandfather, and it was the highest maize crop ever brought in. These guys should’ve been on a magazine anywhere. And it’s neat to see the old, back then, I think men wore a bunch of gray canvas shirts back then, that kind of thing. And I look back at that and realized where he came. So, there’s some history there, but I think the thing that struck home with me as a kid, he and I were supposed to go fishing out at Possum Kingdom Lake one morning. And we were in his old- we were loading up his old 1959 Apache pickup truck and beautiful rust coloration, green, turquoise green, with a floor starter. And I remember just loving the truck. It was like a rocket ship to me and looking over and I thought- I was agitated. I was like six years old, but I was agitated. And I was mad because I felt like we didn’t get away quick enough because the sun was coming up. Well, the sun wasn’t coming up, there was a house fire two streets over. And when I called my dad’s attention to it, I saw his whole demeanor change. And he literally reached down and grabbed his bunker boots and his bunker coat and his helmet and put it in the back of the truck. And he said, “Get in the truck.” Now, the way he said it, you know when your dad would talk to you a certain way- well, he’s serious. And I remember pulling up to this. We were the first ones there. He pulled two people out, and the firetrucks come rolling up, and I’m sitting on the curb. He sits me on the curb and says, “Don’t move from this spot.” Of course, again, there’s that voice. So, I sat there and watched all this unfold. And I learned at an early age, what it meant to be of service, what that truly meant. And it was being willing to give up yourself to a point when others needed you. And sometimes maybe even to your own demise. A huge lesson I learned as a young man. And there’ve been times that I’ve failed at it miserably. As I’ve gotten older, I think I’ve gotten better at it. But yeah, that service context comes from that. And then later as I went into professional life, whether it was fire department, which I wanted to be of service, which is why I went in that route or why I was even looking at the Marine Corps, those are the things that I really believe that fervently, that there’s no higher calling in life than to be of service. But that also, to me over the years, has turned into multiple definitions. You could be a janitor and be of service. You could be a gas attendant and be of service. You could be someone who delivers food to the table and be of service. We have delivered meals for people here and been of service. It’s a wide variety of things. And I don’t care if you’re a doctor, a lawyer, a terrorist hunter, whatever you are, if you’re giving of yourself, then you’re being of service. And I think that is truly, to me, like the pinnacle of what life is about. The beauty of it is sometimes you get rewarded for that directly and indirectly. And so, even this project we’ve talked about here, I don’t tend to look at it as a strictly a business venture. I look at it as how can I be of service to the community? And will there be rewards? Well, yeah. I mean, we’re in it as a, we’re a for-profit business, but hey, we don’t make profit every month. We had a huge fiasco here on February 13th, where we were trying to- It had been a long time since Brownwood’s had lobster. So, I called Maine, we got lobster coming in, and they got stuck in the belly of a plane in Austin. We still haven’t had them delivered today. But people were so appreciative of the fact that we wanted to bring that to this community. But, hey, we come up with a plan B on the fly, and it’s shrimp versus lobster, and we try to make it as good as we can. And but still that’s a way to be of service. And then you’ve got the other thing that doesn’t involve anything but your daily walk. And that is yesterday somebody called me, they’re stuck in Austin, they can’t go to their ranch. So hey, can you go out there and feed my cattle for me? And go out there and we push some bales of hay over. It turns out he’s got one on the ground, and she’s not going to make it. And I hate to put an animal down, but hey, you do those things, the hard things you got to do. But you don’t think that guy’s appreciative of what we did for him? So that’s, to me, service is all encapsulating; it’s all encapsuling. In business and personal, in your daily walk, how are you doing things to make it better? Sorry, that’s a long way around the barn.
Neil Dudley: There’s so much value in that. What I think I take from that, maybe the listeners would too, is don’t build your success or your business on how much money can I make? How much can you help others? And that is going to pay you off in so many ways. And if you really do it from a genuine place, it can pay you in money.
Jeff Tucker: Well, it can. The seminar that we did for years, I mean, we travelled- look, at one point, we had 40 staff working for us globally. One weekend we’d be in Arkansas, one weekend, we’d be in Dubai, that same weekend we might be in Australia. So, we built over time something that was, we were real proud of what we could put out in a given weekend. We were doing 10 to 12 courses a weekend. That’s huge. And I never- you should have told me that back in high school, that I’d be doing that, I’d have laughed at you. I was a failed gymnast. I wasn’t a great gymnast. But I do think where I have talents is that breaking it down simplistically for people to learn how to use body weight training to get stronger. So, I think I can do that well. But it doesn’t mean that I have to compete on a national level or send someone to Nationals or Junior Olympics or Olympics. Because look, if I’m working with somebody that’s 35 years old who’s never done a handstand in their life or know what balance is, well, I can work with them and learn them that because of the skills that I was taught as a young man. That said, if I can teach someone balance, if I can teach someone to do things that they’re uncomfortable with, that’s going to help them and be of service to them as they get older. You and I both know nobody’s getting out alive. So, and I struggle with this daily. I have to constantly keep stretching. I’ve broken my back in two places as a young man. And so, I’ve got to keep that maintenance up. And if I don’t, well, I’m going to pay a price for it. So, there’s lots of ways to – sorry, I segued there – there’s lots of ways to be of service. And I think it doesn’t always have to be about the dollar. At the end of the day though, obviously, we’ve got to make a living. So, it’s funny, people ask me – gosh, I saw this yesterday, somebody made a post, there’s a celebrity that makes 80 million a year, you’re never going to meet him, but you’re paying full price for his product. Here locally, you’ve got a business, you’re making $25,000 or maybe $100,000 a year, and somebody wants a discount. So, how do you be of service to that person? Well, you open the doors, and you don’t worry about the dollar.
Neil Dudley: Totally. Thanks for sharing. I want to, again, just a couple more things and a couple of closing questions. And your time is valuable, so I don’t want to-
Jeff Tucker: You’re good.
Neil Dudley: Anyways, what was that little six-year-old boy thinking, sitting on that curb? I’m just thinking I would have been so scared. What do you remember it like?
Jeff Tucker: It was really a bad moment. There was a point where I had saw Jack pull out two people. And then I saw him go on the garden hose, and then a ladder truck came by me. And they didn’t see me sitting there. Like I couldn’t believe how close that ladder truck was pulling up in front of the house. I mean, I felt not only the exhaust coming out of the back of the truck itself, but I felt the whish of the truck coming by and that early morning dew. And then I saw Jack come out and borrow somebody’s bunker boots because he forgot to get his boots. And I saw him struggling to put them on. And then the next time I saw him, he was on top of the roof, the roof caved in. I thought he died. Like I see him and three other men on top of the roof, roof caves in. And it turns out that he had fallen through partially and the guy behind him, because when that happens, there’s a conflagration of steam and smoke that aerates out the top. And I literally thought that I saw my father die. So, I’ve got tears rolling down, and I just, I was in disbelief. Unbeknownst to me, the guy behind him on the line, reached down and grabbed him and grabbed him by his boots, like right. And then he inch-wormed up the line backwards to him and then got him off. And then they all got the hell off the roof. Sometimes firemen are stupid. They don’t really think about what’s burning. -trying to get the wet stuff on the red stuff. And it was funny, Jack told me years later, he said, “I could see somebody on the couch literally burning underneath it.” And if he’d fallen through, that probably would have been it. But it was interesting to me, the thing I recall most was after that, I didn’t see him appear again until he came off the roof, and he came walking over, of course, he’s wearing Levi’s, his bunker boots are up to his hips. And at that point, his coat is kind of open and he’s got a stained white t-shirt – everybody wore t-shirts back then. And he’s got soot all over him and snot bubbles coming out of him. And to me, it was most beautiful sight. He looked like a [inaudible], but I buried- I jumped up and ran to him and buried my face in his chest and hugged him. And I remember him saying, “Are you okay, boy?” And at that moment I was. But no, it was, it’s one of those things that I’ve actually written chapters about it. And I can never do that moment justice. It was probably one of the strongest things I’ve ever felt as a person. And even today, it’s hard to recollect it because it’s like, it never- sometimes it’s like it never happened. I remember one time I left and drove to Irving, and the name of the street was Little John. There was a little area called Sherwood Forest, and it was kind of the ritzy part of town, and we were on the poor part. So, when I say it was a few streets over it, it was really a few blocks over, but we drove over there. And I remember one night, just on my own as a man, I drove to that spot trying to relive it. And I called Jack and I said, “Did this really happen? Did this really happen?” And he goes, “Well, yeah, it happened.” And he goes “I know it seems like a dream to you.” He goes, “but it happened.” And I said, “Well, I just, it’s hard for me, the older I get to put into context what all of that was.” But yeah, as far as what I was thinking as a six-year-old boy, I thought Daddy had died and that was it. And he was my hero. He taught me to fish, hunt, everything. And then to see him come out of it, well then, he was just a bigger hero to me. But that was the ultimate, that’s the price people risk. They were willing to pay, knowing that- Jack wrote a line one time, he actually wrote a book of prose and poetry. He was scheduled to be on the Johnny Carson Show back when it was live, and he’d gotten hurt in a fire and couldn’t make it. And yet I just remember reading that book and there was something in there where he was willing – and when he said we, he was talking about the e pluribus unum of the fire service, that there were many of them that were willing to do good things. But he had written in there that they were willing to in an instant taste eternity because somebody else was out there in a position where they too could taste eternity instantaneously. And I grew up around that man. I cut my teeth on that fire department. I literally, I’d get on my bike, and I’d hear a radio call coming into the house, I’d get on my bike and go to the fire just to watch it. But yeah, it was- Sorry, I got emotional there.
Neil Dudley: No, it is emotional. It reminds me of how much I love my dad. And we even talk about that on an episode of the podcast. And I don’t even know what number it was, but it’s my dad’s cup of love theory and how closely tied we are from parents to kids and kids to parents, that love and that gift that I feel like is God given. It is just an unconditional love
Jeff Tucker: And a great legacy.
Neil Dudley: Oh, and it’s such a great feeling. I mean, my dad had one time was going to go out door to door for the church, kind of inviting people to come to church. And as a kid, that scared me. Dad tells the story. I don’t remember it. But he says, “When I was talking about doing that, you said you wanted to go. I mean, why did you want to go so bad? And you told me, well, if they kill you, I want them to kill me, too.” Because that’s just how much I love him. So anyways, I love exploring those stories. Now you said a lot through this conversation we. So, when you say we, who are you talking about? Is that Tracy? Is that the team of people you put together to build those-?
Jeff Tucker: It’s the editorial we. I say that, and I get chastised for that sometimes, but I say that because it’s never I. It never is.
Neil Dudley: I want everybody to hear that. I believe that so much.
Jeff Tucker: I’ll tell you what I used to do, and I got this again from my dad, and he would- I call him a high school dropout – the guy was super intelligent. He was a grammar Nazi, really when you get down to it. But one time I asked him, I noticed in his book of poetry that the letter I was always uncapitalized. And I asked him one day, “Why do you do that?” He goes, “Because it’s not about me. If you capitalize I, then it really is about you.” And so, for me, everything is a we, because there’s, even at this business right now, Chad’s in the other room, getting things ready for today. That’s not me. That’s Chad. It’s a we thing. So, everything truly is that. I don’t care what business you’re in. And I always try to remember that. But I’ve been asked that question a lot. It’s interesting that people catch it because sometimes they don’t, but when they do, and you say, well, look, none of us are doing this alone.
Neil Dudley: Well, I say it multiple times. I think leaders, good leaders, understand that and allow it and embrace it. It is one of the things that I kind of take issue with Trump, his whole reign is kind of over at least from a political standpoint, but he says I a lot – “I’m the greatest; I know everything.” That immediately kind of makes me discount whatever he’s saying, because I know that’s not true. So anyways.
Jeff Tucker: Well, I’ll say this, I mean, if you’ve got anybody – I won’t single him out, although I’ve got issues with Trump, too – I think any leader, like right now, it’s going to be interesting to watch Biden. But I think whoever is in that pinnacle position, they really do tell on themselves with how they talk, their body language, etc. And what’s so funny is, I think it’s unfortunate, in the body politic, whether it be state, local, or federal, is that they’re really not in charge. It’s not about them. I mean, there are more people today making this country work because of what things like you and I do. I mean, look at what you do over at Peterson’s, look at what somebody does down the street, Blimpie’s store making hamburgers, is that not of service? And that’s the thing, those multitudes are the ones who are making the gears turn. And I think we lose focus of that.
Neil Dudley: Absolutely. Jeff Tucker, thank you so much, man. That was a great exploration of your experience in life and thought process. And I hope everybody out there listening gets some value from that. I know there’s value there. You got to choose to pick it up.
Jeff Tucker: That five bucks, you can get coffee anywhere.
Neil Dudley: It’s one of those kind of the Cowboy Perspective things. One of the things you mentioned is some of that cowboy, the way cowboys do things, like you just going and helping and having to put that baby calf down and the realities of that, man, it’s sad, but man, it’s also humane. It’s also-
Jeff Tucker: It’s real life. It’s real life. And I’ll say this, I’ll pay homage to one cowboy that I knew, and it was Leroy Tucker. And they came out of Tennessee to Texas long ago. But watching that man work with animals and work with a ranch and the day in, day out of the Kimberlin Ranch for specifics, I learned a whole bunch about life from that man, just because of- exactly, what they had to do.
Neil Dudley: A lot of what my perspective is and what I think about things comes from just me watching them. People are watching you, folks. So especially if you got kids or people in your business, they’re watching you. So, keep that in mind and set them a good example.
Jeff Tucker: I forget it all the time.
Do what I say, not what I do. Alright, cool. Hey everybody, thanks for listening. And we’re done.
Well, folks, I hope you really enjoyed that conversation over the conference table at Teddy’s Brewhaus. Jeff and I spent what I really thought was valuable time talking about his life, his experience, those things that he remembers so well, his reasons for doing what he does. I hope you just use that as some insight into somebody I think’s a pretty cool guy, and maybe there’s a thing or two there that makes a lot of sense to you, and you want to start using, or parallels your experience in life and it helps you along in some way. Thank you so much for listening. I always say that; I’ll just never stop saying it. I appreciate you lending your attention to this little thing that I do. And I don’t know what else to say. Just I hope so much that you find value. Hey, until next time, this is Neil Dudley signing off from the Cowboy Perspective.
The Cowboy Perspective is produced by Neil Dudley and Straight Up Podcasts. Graphics are done by Root & Roam Creative Studio. And the music is by Byron Hill Music.