Neil Dudley: The Cowboy Perspective, well, it might be hard to define, but I guarantee if you think about it, you’ve got one in mind. Whether you’re building a legacy, an empire, or a fan base, I bet when your friends look at you, they see some cowboy in your face. Y’all come along, let’s talk about this or that. Maybe when we’re done, you’ll go away with another perspective to put under your hat.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Cowboy Perspective. I’d love to make this introduction the best one I’ve ever done because I’m bringing to the podcast this time around my wife. We’re in quarantine during the Corona virus outbreak of 2020, and it turns out it’s time to put out a podcast. And I used it as a great excuse to get her on here and talk to her about a lot of different things. I look forward to hearing what you had to thought – what you had to thought about this – what you thought, what do you think about our conversation. Please write reviews, let me know. Did you hate it? Did you love it? All those things. And if you have questions, I want to answer those. I will get Stacy to answer those. Check out the show notes. We’ll have links there to stuff we talk about, books or resources that you might find interesting. So here we go. And I hope you guys truly enjoy this episode.
Back again, for another episode of the Cowboy Perspective. My wife is sitting across the bedroom from me tonight. I’m gazing my eyes into hers. She’s shaking her head, no.
Stacy Dudley: Don’t do that.
Neil Dudley: We’re in quarantine in case you haven’t figured it out, and the show must go on. So, I have not been able to get another cowboy mentor, and this spelled a great opportunity, a great chance for me to get Stacy on the podcast. Out of the two of us, I think she’s easily the most dynamic and interesting when it comes to the things she’s done in her career and her life. And I want you guys to hear a little bit about it, and I think she’ll add a lot of value to, well, at least at very minimum, your thoughts about marketing and how that can play into your business. Stacy, my love, tell you what, folks, this is going to be a special treat. I’m going to read it my vows because we have them up on the wall. Stacy, I love you with all my heart. I wish you could see my wife’s face right now. She’s thinking, are we really doing this? Yes, we really are, with these big headphones on and mic in front of her face. Okay, sorry, folks, back to the important thing here. I love you with all my heart and I stand here with God and our families as witnesses to marry you and make you my wife. I vow to be the husband, the man, and the best friend you deserve. You fill my world with a pure and genuine joy that is impossible to describe. I vow to reflect that joy in my life. Your presence gives me a feeling of enjoyment and satisfaction. I vow to work each day to provide the same to you. Your hugs are a familiar touch that warms my heart and repairs my soul. I vow to be here to provide and care for you. Your smile gives me goosebumps of anticipation and excitement. I vow to partner with you in every situation. Your compassion and your grace make me proud to call myself your husband. You’re truly a miracle and it is my solemn vow that wherever you may be, so will I. I vow to be here with you through it all, good or bad, happy or sad. In my life, we are one from now until forever.
Stacy Dudley: Aw, it’s just as sweet now as it was then.
Neil Dudley: It was kind of fun to write that back in the day, a little over 10 years ago now, 11. So now that’s out of the way, Stacy, why don’t you tell everybody a little bit about who you are and let’s just talk and see where the conversation goes, and I hope everybody finds some value in our conversation. Otherwise, I’m just going to enjoy it.
Stacy Dudley: Well, you like really built me up here. I got nothing. I mean, I’m hoping you didn’t think I was going to prepare for this.
Neil Dudley: Well, I know you didn’t prepare, you don’t have to. That’s another, that’s an interesting thing or I think it’s really true in business, when you do the thing, like I don’t think anybody can stump me when it comes to Peterson’s and what we do as a company and how we make our products and what’s important to us because I just live it. I mean, it’s just a thing that I know intimately. So, you don’t have to prepare to come have this conversation because you do this stuff all day, every day, it’s who you are, it’s what you are. So, the idea that you would even think about preparing doesn’t make much sense. So, let’s just talk.
Stacy Dudley: Right, we have been quarantined for 14 days and I’ve made the joke that I’m happy as I can be. Like, I’ve never felt better, and I feel rejuvenated, and I could stay here forever and be perfectly happy. And I think that it could be killing Neil because we are two totally different people. Like he likes talking and talking to people and them talking back to him, and I like quiet and being by myself. And this quarantine thing has been really awesome.
Neil Dudley: I was just kind of in a funk. Was it yesterday or the day before? I think it might’ve been yesterday where I think I was just like seriously in a funk from not being around humans, other humans. I mean, you and the girls are humans and y’all qualify, but it’s not the same really.
Stacy Dudley: Well, I mean, think about it too, like I like working out and I can’t get motivated to do that. And it’s hard to get motivated to eat right. But put me in quarantine, I find all the motivation in the world. I’m running every day, I’m eating right, I’m cooking three meals a day. Life is good. You’re the opposite. Like when you have to go be around everybody, you find all your motivation and you’re kicking my tail because you’re like running every day, hardcore keto.
Neil Dudley: It is wild how people just feed off different things in life. I think, I mean, that’s really you just now talking about it, it’s the first time it’s really hit me, like, yeah, that makes so much sense, really does. Okay. Come on. Let’s fast track to something else.
Stacy Dudley: So every introvert out there, hug your extrovert.
Neil Dudley: Yeah. And extroverts hug your introverts. There is an awesome book out there-
Stacy Dudley: Your introverts are feeling pretty good right now.
Neil Dudley: Don’t hug them?
Stacy Dudley: You don’t have to hug them. They’re feeling good.
Neil Dudley: So, what qualifies? What is it? Just a little wave from across the room?
Stacy Dudley: No, I mean, being an introvert doesn’t mean that you don’t like a hug. It just means that you’re feeling okay right now. I mean, like right now is okay.
Neil Dudley: Oh, yeah, with the quarantine stuff.
Stacy Dudley: But your extroverts may need some extra love.
Neil Dudley: Well, I think our whole society doesn’t understand that very well because we’ve built this extrovert personality up to be the thing that’s important and all that. And it’s so not. If you get a chance, folks, go read the book, I think I may have mentioned it on the podcast before – The Value of Introverts in a World that Won’t Stop Talking. I can’t remember the author. I’ll have Johnny put it in the show notes so you guys can reference it, but it’s a really cool book that tells you really how valuable introverts are and what we do as a society to kind of shame somebody with an introvert personality. There’s just a million things that I hope my daughters, if they are an introvert, we can direct and be something for them that makes them understand that just because the world says all these extrovert people or are the successful people, well that’s not necessarily true. The introverts are hugely successful and very valuable. I don’t know why I went off on that big tangent. We just said the word introvert, and it made me think of that book. Anyways, tell everybody what you do for a living or what you’ve done for a living. Tell us about your career, your history, and those fun things.
Stacy Dudley: Yeah. I was born a dairyman daughter and my first job was testing bacteria in milk. So that was fun. And I became terrified of germs, and here we are in a Corona world. And then I graduated high school, went to college, I went to Belmont University in Nashville, and graduated from Belmont, long couple of little detours along the way, ended up working, getting a dream job really pretty much straight out of college, working for a song publisher on Music Row. He managed Keith Whitley and Jimmy Buffett, and just was really one of the famous veterans in the music business.
Neil Dudley: Who was he?
Stacy Dudley: Don Light. So, I worked on the music publishing side. So, we would have songwriters and they would write songs and I would go pitch them. And I loved it. I wasn’t the greatest at it. It was my first job. And so, I was just figuring it all out, but I probably loved, I mean, I just loved that so much and learned to love a good story and a good song.
Neil Dudley: And does just anybody get a song plugging job? Can just anybody get that job?
Stacy Dudley: Oh, you just get lucky. I just got lucky. My whole life I just got lucky.
Neil Dudley: Tell that story. That’s not luck.
Stacy Dudley: No, that was luck.
Neil Dudley: I think that’s entrepreneurship. I think that’s what it is. Tell the story, we’ll let the listeners decide.
Stacy Dudley: Well, my sister was like they might be looking for someone. And it was really hard. I mean, the jobs in Nashville were super competitive. Everybody coming out of school, that’s the whole reason you go to Nashville is either to sing or to work in the music business. And so, she got me an interview, and I went in and said, “I just want a job. I will take out your trash. I will show up every day. I will take out the trash and I’ll do it for free if you’ll just let me come to the office every day.” He said, “Sounds good. It sounds like you have a job. I’ll tell you what, I’ll get you a meeting, I’ll get you your first meeting with every producer, record label executive in this town. I’ll get you your first meeting. And if you can get the second meeting, you’ll have a job.” So, I had a job for a while.
Neil Dudley: Yeah. I mean, that’s so cool. Like I love that story. I think it’s so fun to see that part of your life and you were young and you loved music. And you’re not the most sales-y kind of person, like you’re an introvert, you don’t really want to be in these-
Stacy Dudley: No, I’m not a salesy person, but I did have one meeting one time where I pitched a song and it was a guy who worked in A&R for a label and he said, “Man, I don’t get it, but you’re so excited about it, I’m going to play it for the artist,” which it never actually got-, but so, we got a little temporary hold on it, it never got cut. It did show me young, I mean, I remembered that thinking, gosh, you just have to believe in what you do, and like if you believe in it, then other people will wonder, man, if you think is so good, somebody else has got to think is so good, too. So that’s always stuck with me.
Neil Dudley: You did the song plugging thing for a while. By the way, if anybody’s been following the podcast, you would have heard the episode with Byron Hill. He’s a quite accomplished songwriter in Nashville.
Stacy Dudley: I didn’t work for him.
Neil Dudley: No, I wasn’t trying to tie it together in that way necessarily just-
Stacy Dudley: He is really, really, really good though.
Neil Dudley: You helped me make that connection and get him on. And so that was like, I don’t know Byron Hill because I know him, I know him because I’m married to you. And we happen to get along, and I really enjoyed talking to him and he’s got such a cool story, really, really cool.
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Tell them about Napster and what you learned from that.
Stacy Dudley: Oh, man, I was working in the music industry when Napster and Limewire became a thing and it was just kind of a, it turned the music industry on its head because the way they were used to making money, that all, it was just being stolen from them. So just a new way. It wasn’t going to, really couldn’t- They were trying to bring it down but didn’t look like it was going anywhere. So, I think it was really the turn of how do we find new ways to make money making music?
Neil Dudley: Yeah. If you don’t know what Napster or Limewire was, well, they were just the beginning of what we see today pretty much in all streaming, file sharing stuff. And in that early stage, the artists, the people with the talent, they didn’t have any participation in the-
Stacy Dudley: It just became the end of being able to make money on a record sells. So, they just had to look for new ways to generate revenue for the labels. The songwriters could always make, were making money and the labels were making money because they could sell records and the artists were making money because they had a little piece in all of it, and then they were going on the road and touring. And it just kind of turned it all up on its head. And labels had to find a new way to get to generate revenue and I guess everybody did.
Neil Dudley: Which I think parallels where we’re at today and the world with coronavirus.
Stacy Dudley: And I want to preface that with I have so little experience with, that was my recollection of music, but actually, I feel like I spent such a limited time getting to work in the business, and I have no idea where it is today. Sometimes I wonder, what is it really like on Music Row today?
Neil Dudley: Yeah. Well, if you’re a listener and you know, hey, we would love to hear about it. So, contact me. You can find this- I really am trying to figure out how to tell somebody to get ahold of me, but my email, neil@thecowboyperspective.com, is a great way. We’d love to hear some of that. I think that’d be kind of a cool follow-up to this conversation. Anyways.
Stacy Dudley: So, I went from song plugging to, I mean, really just that just kind of took a crazy, wild ride because it was a little bit all over the place. I went on a radio tour across the United States, worked on the publishing side for in song plugging. I put on some concerts and figured out that I really loved promoting concerts because I could control so much of that. I could find a venue that I knew I could get for cheap, and I knew I could sell tickets, 2000 tickets. I could process tickets. And at 25 and 26 years old, I was thinking, man, I have a lot of control over, as long as I make smart moves, I have a lot of control over making some money. So, I had a lot of fun doing that and then went from that to working for a photographer and one of the best photographers, I think, in the country, his name’s Mark DeLong. And after producing for Mark, I think I was in Mexico shooting in Cabo.
Neil Dudley: I Myspaced you.
Stacy Dudley: And then Neil Myspaced me and said, “Can we be friends?” And I said, “I don’t know, can we?” And not too long after that, I took a detour from Mexico to Texas before hitting Nashville again. We went on a date. Then I went back to Nashville, and I don’t know how long after that, but eventually decided that I’d had enough of Music City and wanted to move back to Texas because I’ve found a cowboy.
Neil Dudley: It was a lot of fun going out there and seeing you at Mark and Melissa’s place. They’ve got the coolest place there in Nashville, and those were a lot of fun times.
Stacy Dudley: Okay so, then I moved back to Texas, and I was like, oh man, I’ve been living in an entertainment city, which that’s what I had just learned to love and learned to know and felt like that’s what I knew how to do is sell music or sell different forms of entertainment. And so, I was looking for jobs and found this job for a tour manager. And I was like, hey, I’ve done that. I’ve been on some concerts and gone on tour. So, I can do a tour manager thing. Neil, do you know this guy, Clinton Anderson? And Neil got excited because that’s way his thing. And I was, I mean, I kind of read about it and I was pretty excited. So anyway, I ended up working for Clinton and probably one of my favorite, really, really loved that job, which is funny because I’m not a horse person. Neil can tell a funny story about that.
Neil Dudley: I bought her a horse. We took the horse to the round pen. I’m like alright, this is what we do, this is how we do it – like, I really know, I’m not a horse whisperer or anything, but I like to think I know what I’m doing. Anyways, I start this horse around the round pen. She’s kind of starts bucking and playing and acting a little wild. And I look around for Stacy and she is gone, crawled under the fence out. She is screaming. She’s going to try to kill us. I’m not sure, did you ever go back in the round pen after that?
Stacy Dudley: Probably not.
Neil Dudley: I think not. I think we sold the horse and that was that. We gave it the good ol’ college try.
Stacy Dudley: But I still went on and worked for Clinton and absolutely loved that job. Really, he was just great to work for, and I really respected his- he was so passionate about what he did and then he also just stayed so focused and that never wavered. Like he knew what his method was, and he never second guessed it. He just stayed consistent. And I think that’s what people really loved about him. So, it was just something kind of cool that I took from working for Clinton and watching him, his energy, and then his laser focus on what he was doing.
Neil Dudley: Would you say that each one of those steps up the career, along the path, really, probably each one of those steps along the path, you probably took a little something from each one of those kind of people you worked with and for that you probably still play or use or think about today?
Stacy Dudley: Oh yeah, absolutely. And I remember in the music business, they would always say the biggest artists get there by shaking one hand at a time, selling one record at a time. It’s one new fan or one new consumer at a time. And I think just that coupled with, it’s kind of funny, because it was always entertainment, and I was kind of the person behind the person. And when I started working, when I left Clintons, when I went to get off the road and wanted to do something to slow down a little bit, get off the road, decided hey, I’m going to put my application in over here at Peterson’s. I had to send my resume to Cody Lane, Neil’s best friend and president of the company. And luckily, he hired me, and I kind of just took the same, for me, I took the same look at if you’re marketing a horse trainer or somebody who writes music or plays and sings music, or bacon, it’s all the same. I mean, people, they operate with the same hearts. They all have, everybody has a heart. And they’re motivated in different ways, and it doesn’t matter what you’re selling, you just got to learn a little bit about consumer behavior. What do they want? How can you help them?
Neil Dudley: I’m listening to books and podcasts all the time. One of the ones I’ve recently listened to had a piece of it, something very similar to that like you cannot present, sell or have any chance with somebody if you don’t get their heart engaged in the conversation, you can’t have their analytical brain on what you’re trying to tell them about. You’re really never going to get into that pocket where you can truly build a relationship with them, make a customer out of them, make a fan out of them, all those things.
Stacy Dudley: Well, I think that’s one thing at a Peterson’s where, or I guess probably any company, but you run up against it with when you’re talking to consumers, and you’ve got to, half your messaging is B to C, and half your messaging is B to B. And you’ll try to put some of your consumer messaging into your customer, your retailer, your B to B messaging, and people will say they don’t want to hear that, they just want the facts. That is not true. That person is still a person. I mean, they still have a heart, and they still make emotional decisions. It’s hard not to. I don’t think anybody, anybody, is that well trained to completely take emotion out of every decision they make. It’s just impossible. So, a good story is still a good story.
Neil Dudley: Well, and an honest story, and a genuine story, I mean, it’s like you can’t completely make it all up and it be relatable. I mean, maybe somebody has done that. I can’t do it. Like I have to live, talk, run a business, be a part of a business, exactly my reality, how I feel about it. I just perceive, or I think, a lot of times, people will maybe put up a big wall or guard against the story or somebody that’s trying to relate to him. And that might be a whole personality thing. That’s another road to follow in just figuring out how you build relationships, how you do business with people that make it win-win or at least a good deal for everybody, something everybody can walk away happy from. I think that’s the challenge each and every day to figure out in really no matter what you’re doing.
Stacy Dudley: Yeah, I think, I don’t know, as fast as things move and you start looking at, like going into 2020, something that we typically have been able to do in the past is just you could do simple things like look at Google analytics and know what your customers are doing and know how to respond in order to like, okay, these are the type of people coming in and this is where they’re going, and this is the kind of content they like, but it’s getting to be so much more complicated because there’s so many ways they’re consuming information from voice recognition, which that’s not even part of the analytics that most people have been used to viewing, but like voice search and searching from your Apple watch. And I mean, it’s crazy, crazy how people are consuming information today and being able to find new ways to engage them when they’re very unpredictable, too, because they’re getting so much information, but also have enough data and the time to understand the data to know what they need, and what kind of information are they looking for. So, I think it’s just, it’s kind of an interesting time. Well, and then coronavirus hits and that makes it that much more interesting.
Neil Dudley: I mean, I think being in the music business when Napster and Limewire hit gives you a certain toolbox to reach into just from those learnings and living through that time. A huge disruption in a market or in a business or in the economy or whatever you’re doing, you’ve been through that, you live through that. I’m kind of glad we have your expertise and insight. Can you pinpoint exactly what the perfect thing is? I mean, if you can hurry up and tell me because we need to do that.
Stacy Dudley: No, I’ve always related that to, I never understood in the music industry, because I had the easy job and I was a song plugger, I wasn’t the one that was putting everything I had into creating the art and the masterpiece. But I would hear them talk about writer’s block or the fear of not ever writing another number one song. And I know that we’ve had some successes at Peterson’s, like really launching some, well, I mean, we’ve launched and had some great success with some pretty disruptive products, disrupting the industry, changing the industry. And you always worry, like you’re always looking for what do people want next? Like where are they headed? And you try to stay ahead of it, and then you worry, like, will I have that idea again, will that ever come or will any- can we have that idea again? And luckily, we have just a really great team who always seem to have that really awesome idea percolating.
Neil Dudley: Yeah. And you never know it when you have it all. We didn’t know it when we had it with no sugar bacon.
Stacy Dudley: I felt pretty good about it though.
Neil Dudley: Right. But we didn’t- I mean, first time we got laughed out of the room trying to sell no sugar bacon to a retailer, I mean, you start thinking, well, I don’t know. You had a good pulse on the consumer and what was coming and how they felt about things. So that did play really well for us.
Just really quick, I want to say thank you to Johnny over at Straight Up Podcasts. He is helping me improve this podcast in so many ways with regards to sound quality, interviews organization, all that stuff. So, Johnny, I just want to tell the world that I appreciate what you’re doing here, helping the Cowboy Perspective be the best it can be.
Oh, I know what thought fluttered away from me – the idea of building a business without a bunch of venture capital or big money that’s looking for the exit later. I mean, that happens. We’ve built this business, Peterson’s, on a very guerrilla type growth strategy, marketing strategy without big dollars behind it. I think people would be surprised to know what our marketing budget is. It’s just small. We do a lot of stuff with a little small amount of money. And then as you get bigger and you’re starting to kind of get very infiltrated into your niche and you’re thinking, oh, well, if I’m going to keep growing, I’m going to have to expand this in some way. What do you think about that? I have a feeling about it. What do you think about it?
Stacy Dudley: Well, I think the more distinct your differentiation is, then you don’t have to be as loud. So, when we were the only person on the shelf that had no sugar bacon, we had that space for a long time, and we knew people loved it. We knew internally that’s why we were getting consumers. That’s why they were demanding, like we will drive two hours to find your product. And that’s a really fun and nice place to be.
Neil Dudley: And we have to give some of that credit to Melissa Hartwig at Whole30 and the influence that lady had. I say this-
Stacy Dudley: I think if you want to talk about that though, I think every trend or the thing that’s happening that people are grabbing onto is based on some type of influence. I’ve seen people say, ah, influencers, I’m so tired of hearing about influence, and it’s always going to be a thing. I don’t care what it is, you’re always going to be influenced by something or somebody. And yes, absolutely, I think Melissa was, Melissa’s just, she’s another one, talking about Clinton, two totally different people and two totally different industries, but she is another one who has this laser focus. She knows what she’s doing. She knows why she’s doing it. And it’s like, if you just listen to her, she never, her vision and her purpose is the same every single time she talks. She never just gets confused about, oh man, is this really where I want to head. Anyway, I think that consistency just makes people feel confident and comfortable. Like when I listen tomorrow, she’s going to tell me the same thing and she’s not going to change her mind. This is the way to go. Anyway, I don’t know, but I think we were talking about on when we launched the no sugar bacon, it was really good because we were, and we’re talking guerrilla marketing and very low budgets. You don’t have to, as long as you’re transparent and you communicate often and consistent and you’re consistent and you are looking to actually engage and build a community, then you don’t have to spend a lot of money. But then as we had a lot more competitors come into that space and they had a lot of money to spend, we had to look for ways to be louder if we wanted to fight for that shelf space. Luckily, I think that we bought a lot of loyalty in the beginning, and we really had good, honest reasons for that product, which I think also was very valuable to us. We didn’t make a product to say, hey, you need to buy this, or let me tell you why you want this. We were listening to what consumers wanted, and then we went and made the product they asked for. That wasn’t us watching, we weren’t watching trends for that. We weren’t watching sales trends to see what other companies were doing. I mean, we just were listening to our consumer.
Neil Dudley: Well, I think there was a whole lot of great advice right there in that little segment for everybody listening. I think from our experience, and I never say we’re great or we’re awesome, we’ve done all these things.
Stacy Dudley: I look around all the time and say, man, I hate it because they just did it better than we did, whatever it is. Like there’s people just doing really wonderful, amazing things out there.
Neil Dudley: Which I guess I’m sensitive to it maybe because I see Gary Vaynerchuks and Tim Ferrisses, and I don’t know, you can name these people – Donald Trump. They’re not as bad as Trump. Trump’s probably the gold standard in ‘I am the greatest, only smart human being there is.’ But I think we have a lot of knowledge that will help people and just telling these stories and our experiences for somebody to just listen to them. I mean, because we’ve been there. I mean, we called our website healthypork.com.
Stacy Dudley: No, we didn’t.
Neil Dudley: Before Stacy, we did. This is what Peterson’s website-
Stacy Dudley: Can I tell that story?
Neil Dudley: Yeah, you can tell that story. But the amount of screw ups we’ve had, nobody really I feel like it gets honest about-
Stacy Dudley: So, a cowboy walks into a bar. “Hi, my name is Neil.” Later, he says, why don’t you email me? Here’s my business card. Neil@healthypork.com. I kind of laughed. I was like, I’m not emailing you at- like, what is this? Who are you? This is crazy. I’m not, I don’t know what you’re wanting me to email you, but I’m not emailing you that, and I’m not emailing neil@healthypork.com. Anyway, come to find out it’s like a real thing and they make bacon and ham and sausage. I mean, their company’s name was Peterson’s, but it was neil@healthypork.com. So, we changed that pretty quickly. And we still kept-
Neil Dudley: Our website was healthypork.com.
Stacy Dudley: Yeah, no, that was the thing. And we still own healthypork.com. I think it is a great, something to hang on to.
Neil Dudley: It is a funny story, and just the pivot.
Stacy Dudley: I will say though, from a marketing perspective, I had the dream job because Cody and Neil and the rest of everybody at Peterson’s, they had all been there a long time. They worked really close together. They knew each other, they were best friends and some of them were family, and it was just a really close-knit group, but they really went out on a limb with me on a couple of things and said, “Hey, you want to try, let’s try it.” And I think that was a really, like whatever I wanted to do, they were going to jump on board with. And I think they knew it was a two-way street too, like whatever y’all want me to do, I’m going to try it. So, I think that kind of mentality, and we were smaller at the time, smaller than we are now, and we could move fast and kind of just experiment a little bit, and I think that helped us.
Neil Dudley: Those were some fun days, interesting days, millions and millions of stories to tell about those times and just being a kid that didn’t know anything. Cody was made president of Peterson Natural Farms at age 22 or 23. There are entrepreneurs out there that have built their businesses that young, but it’s a very small number to be at the helm of a real business at that age. There’s just got to be a lot of lessons learned and scrambling. I mean, make a mistake, people, scramble, fix it, figure it out, learn, go on. It’s like you will not get it right. I’ve heard that advice in a lot of the podcasts and books I’ve read is have a good idea, work hard, pay attention, all those things, but don’t be afraid of a failure. You’re going to have to fail to really succeed. So, if you’re worried about failing, hurry up, get to it, do some failing. It’ll help you. You’ll get where you want to go a lot quicker. Now, did you ever tell us the thing that you are into right now in marketing? Like what’s the one thing you’re very excited about in the world of marketing?
Stacy Dudley: Oh, man, I think technology is just moving so fast and the way people consume the information is nearly more than any one person can know. There’s just a lot of opportunity to talk to people in different ways. I’m not really the most, like I can get kind of- I know a little bit about everything, but not a lot about anything. And I kind of enjoyed the space of technology most, kind of data analytics and technology, that’s kind of where I really enjoy spending my time. So, my talk gets a little boring when you start going into all that stuff. Cause right now, it’s all about, I think headless CMS is one of the coolest things, something that is, it’s just adaptable.
Neil Dudley: See, I didn’t understand a thing you just said. What is headless CMS?
Stacy Dudley: It’s really simple. But I think, WordPress for website development, WordPress has always been a really big thing and it was something kind of any anybody – well, I think it’s hard to kind of get into that conversation. But WordPress is a really great content management system. And that’s how websites are built. That’s how Peterson’s website is built. Well, this headless CMS idea is – and I don’t get so technical that I have all of the right terminology – but basically, it’s a content management system that doesn’t have a face. It doesn’t have a head, like the head would be the pretty part, but you put all of your stuff in this headless CMS, and then you’re able to distribute it to all of the channels. So that may be to the Apple watch. That may be to, like right now, we’re working on an app, and we can use this headless CMS to put all the content in there that will run this app. And once all that content is in there, we can take it from the content management system and syndicate it in different ways to whatever channel that we want to, instead of having to go in and say, okay, we’re going to pull it out of here and now we’re going to go put it over here and then we’re going to go put it over here. Basically, it’s just-
Neil Dudley: It’s a better way of doing it, a more flexible way of doing it.
Stacy Dudley: Yeah. I mean, it’s like a digital asset manager I guess, but it has a lot more opportunity and things that I can’t even explain. Anyway, really the bigger pieces of that are I think mobile apps are still a big- finding new ways to pull people through the funnel and the purchase cycle from just engaging them to really making a relationship. And I think you can find ways to do that through apps. And then I also think that like user experience, digital user experience and understanding, I think I’ve probably said it already a hundred times, but I think it’s so important, is understanding how people consume information.
Neil Dudley: How would somebody get more educated about that if they want it to? If they’re listening to you right now and thinking, wow, this gal sounds really smart, and she just said-
Stacy Dudley: No I’m not.
Neil Dudley: But they might think that, right? How would they go learn some more about that? What might be, could they go to- you haven’t even mentioned once Root & Roam Creative Studio, which is the marketing company you founded over time because Peterson’s couldn’t afford to hire a graphic designer, a copywriter, all these things. So, you started putting this team together and then figuring out a way to fund them. So now that’s a company called Root & Roam Creative Studio. Could somebody go there and learn something about this? Where would you maybe send somebody to learn a little more about user experience?
Stacy Dudley: No, yeah, absolutely. But I think, I just-
Neil Dudley: Practice it? That’s what Gary V always says – be a practitioner, get involved.
Stacy Dudley: Yeah. Do it yourself, mess it up.
Neil Dudley: That’s right. See, and I’m always impressed with you in this regard. The things you’ve taught yourself to do are ridiculous.
Stacy Dudley: They always look like crap. That’s why I have a great team of people. But I can do it. I can build a website, it’s just going to look bad.
Neil Dudley: I’ve never seen anybody tell you I can’t do that and then you not show them in a day or a week’s time, this is how you do it. Oh, I didn’t know you knew how to do that. And I didn’t know how to do it, I taught myself over five days. Now, quit telling me you don’t know how to do it, figure it out.
Stacy Dudley: Well, I mean, no is not a great answer, or I don’t know is not a great answer.
Neil Dudley: Yeah. There you go. That’s honest. I mean, that’s just some, I think that’s just truth that people can find value in.
Stacy Dudley: Why is a great question. And I don’t know is not a good answer.
Neil Dudley: Or I don’t know without a qualifier. Give me just a bit and I’ll figure it out.
Stacy Dudley: I don’t know is a good- you can say I don’t know. Actually, absolutely, say I don’t know. But yes, I can figure that out is a good answer. No, I can’t figure that out, I guess that’s what it is. Because I don’t know is actually a great answer. I think you should always own up to that. Saying I don’t know and saying but let me go figure it out because I can, that’s the way to go.
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Competition. Let’s talk about competition a little bit. I look at Peterson’s and where our company’s been. How much do you think we focus or lean on our competition?
Stacy Dudley: Oh man. Just in marketing?
Neil Dudley: Well in marketing and then maybe even in a more macro sense.
Stacy Dudley: I don’t know that- it really just depends. I think it’s kind of a, really just depends on the week, the month, how busy we are, where the business is. Right now, for me in marketing, it’s just not my season to look at competition. Not to where, I mean, I kind of always follow and know what’s happening, but I’m not really too- Right now, it’s just not the season for me to be worried or really chasing-
Neil Dudley: Well, have you ever, do you ever, do you even think that’s a good strategy?
Stacy Dudley: I think you always need to be aware. They should always be aware, but no, I think competition is awesome.
Neil Dudley: When you see Applegate do something really cool on social media or in an advertisement-
Stacy Dudley: Oh man, I just get mad, not mad, I get like that’s what I was saying earlier about I’m like, ah, I hate that, they just did it better than I could. But that’s just respect for the- It makes me want to go do it better, so I can totally-
Neil Dudley: And I value that a lot. I think it’s part of what gets us to another level in every way is somebody coming and punching us in the face once, or like, oh, they just did that better than us. And I don’t like that-
Stacy Dudley: Yeah. I just always have to, I think I would just have already quit if I couldn’t feel good about this. It doesn’t bother me, I like to see good work being done that challenges me to be better and work hard, like be work smarter and make good decisions. So, I like seeing what’s happening out there, but I think that-
Neil Dudley: You don’t drive what you are and who you are by watching other people?
Stacy Dudley: Oh no. What’s always in the back of my head that makes it all good is I can always say and feel confident, especially with the team that I have around me every day, there’s always a project that we’ve done in the same space where I feel like we just killed it and that, like there’s yeah, y’all did that great or that competitor did it awesome, but we have a good enough track record that I’m like, so if I was always, if it was like, oh man, everybody’s always better, that would be awful, and I would have already quit. But having enough just good history-
Neil Dudley: You got to be a little bit humble, some humility too.
Stacy Dudley: This not me being humble, Hun. Like I know we’ve kicked ass.
Neil Dudley: I think it’s a lesson that’s valuable in understanding or allowing other people to succeed and be great and not belittle them or hate them or wish they weren’t. My selfish humanity wanted no sugar bacon to be this special thing that we just got forever. Nobody else ever came and got it because it was our special little thing. And we had a lot of love happening because of it. We actually had that.
Stacy Dudley: We had that space for a long time.
Neil Dudley: And that’s a lesson I want to tell you people, if you ever catch yourself in that space where you have the thing, pour the resources to it. I don’t think we did in nearly the way we could have and should have, and probably we would have likely done better than we ended up doing. We were just ignorant to how- now I was ignorant. You might not have been, and other people in the company might not have been. So, I’m speaking for a lot of people when I say we.
Stacy Dudley: I think you have to be careful with, I mean, it was a little bit confusing because it was sugar we were talking about, which immediately makes you think about a diet and about weight loss, and those things are always super trendy. But what Melissa was creating, Melissa Hartwig with Whole30 was creating was, and she stayed super focused on this, is not a diet, it is just a mental reset of how you feel about food and how that plays a role in your life. And so, I think that that really allowed it to be, people were able to make it more part of their lifestyle instead of it being a diet where it was all about losing weight. And that is easy to fail, and so, it’s easy to quit, and it’s easy to say, yeah, that didn’t work so I’m going to do something else. Well, that’s not really what she was doing. And I think that’s why it’s lasted so long. And I do think it contributed a huge, played a huge role into the success that we’ve had with that product or the success that, really the success of that the entire industry has had. The industry has been able to do some really cool things because of no sugar meat proteins.
Neil Dudley: Sugar is super addictive. I mean, I think maybe everybody already knew that. Anyways, so I want to just, hats off to the competitors out there. I don’t really like you all the time, but I do appreciate you, and that’s honest truth.
Stacy Dudley: I just don’t like it when you have more money, when you spend more money than I do.
Neil Dudley: Yeah. Well, I say this a lot, I never dreamed I’d be 20 years and working for a bacon making, sausage, ham company. I would have always thought I’d be riding horses, working cattle, building fence, ranching. I’ve turned out to have this beautiful career I love so much. And it’s a pain in the tail sometimes, and sometimes it’s just this great thing. Like part of this coronavirus thing that happens to be just pure luck is everybody’s having to stay at home, they’re going to grocery stores, they’re buying products to cook at home, which kind of parlays to another piece, which is what we’re finding in being in quarantine is kind of a nice thing for our family. It is kind of fun, our kids are getting a little something special, and we even get something special and eating at home has been enjoyable. But from a business perspective, being a manufacturer of bacon, sausage, and ham, our business is just flat booming. And it’s so, I want to be sensitive to the fact that I’m in that position, and a lot of you guys and gals listening to this are not going to be in nearly the same position – you’re having to figure out what are we going to do next? Just like the guys that were making music back when Napster came out and they all of a sudden, their money dried up, their revenue stream dried up, they had to figure something out quickly. And I’m so excited to see the new world we’re living in after this because I think it’s going to change the whole dynamic with regards to a million different things. And I just have no clue. There’s so many jobs, there’s such a wide gamut of things people are doing out there in the world that I don’t even have a clue about that are being affected. And I just happen to be one of them that is actually getting along, or our business is having a pretty, a very, I don’t know. I want to just say we’re not experiencing just disappearance of customers. Our customers need us and we’re doing everything we can to be there for them. And I’m proud of that. I’m proud of the people that work at Peterson’s for being willing to do that. Stace, so what do you think about this Corona thing? I just been in New York City selling some bacon there and trying to figure out how we could infiltrate that market and grow our brand. So, I came home about 14 days ago now. And I’ve not been sick. Nobody in the house has been sick. And I was in there right when it was starting to pop in New York, I was staying up there. What did you think when I came walking by, being the germaphobe you are?
Stacy Dudley: Well, I mean, I think you already knew that because the day before I told you I’m kind of thinking maybe you should just get a hotel room for 14 days. And Neil had been working on me the whole time he was there. He had already had a trip before that that I thought was a little risky. We’d already canceled one conference. And then he decided he would still go to New York, which is business. I mean, he had to, the business needed it. I just couldn’t shake my whole fear of germs.
Neil Dudley: Well, and just really caring about the kids and our health. I give you a hard time about the germaphobe thing. I think that is, it’s really more about wanting to be healthy and not having to deal with illness and those things than it is anything else. Coda, come in here and say hi to everybody like you did. Me and Dakota did a LinkedIn live the other day with a guy named Randall Constant, and she did a pretty good job. Although I think she lost interest pretty quick. Anybody listening happen to do a podcast and have kids and the kids come in when you’re trying to have the interview and stick their head up to one mic, then two steps over, stick their head to the other mic, like I’m fixing to talk in all the mics at one time? Well, that’s what Dakota’s doing. I’m trying to paint a picture for you. Hey, do you have anything you want to add? What do you think about the coronavirus? Will you tell us? Come here and sit in my lap and tell us what you think. Just say, what do you think about the coronavirus? What do you know about it?
Dakota Dudley: That it spreads really fast.
Neil Dudley: How does it spread really fast?
Dakota Dudley: I don’t know.
Neil Dudley: You just have heard that?
Stacy Dudley: How has it changed your life today? How do you feel like it has changed your life? Anything different?
Dakota Dudley: Yeah.
Stacy Dudley: Like what?
Dakota Dudley: You have to stay home.
Stacy Dudley: Yeah. What else? What’s the most negative impact has had on you?
Dakota Dudley: I don’t get to see my friends at school.
Stacy Dudley: Yeah. What’s the best thing that’s come- Has there been anything good that’s come from it?
Dakota Dudley: Buggy.
Neil Dudley: You got a little buggy to ride in, was that a good deal?
Stacy Dudley: She did get a buggy. We went to Hendershot Equipment and got a little Polaris-
Neil Dudley: We’ve slowed down enough that we pray together at night a little bit, which we hadn’t done a lot of prior to some of this.
Stacy Dudley: We’ve made three meals a day for 14 days straight.
Neil Dudley: Yeah. So, from a parent perspective, I got to say, just for me, Coda, I’ve been enjoying spending the time with you guys, although it’s a bit of a crazy thing to try to do your job with the kids at home, and Stacy and I’ve kind of had to take a shift.
Stacy Dudley: We just kind of really extended that, made a 24-hour schedule of life. And we get our work done, but it doesn’t always happen between the typical hours of eight and five, and we just get, we get to it. And that may be at eight o’clock or night at nine o’clock at night. And we may be making lunch at noon and-
Neil Dudley: Hey, Albany, why don’t you tell them what you think about the coronavirus.
Stacy Dudley: What do you know, Albany, about the Coronavirus?
Albany Dudley: That it is spreading really fast.
Stacy Dudley: That it’s spreading really fast. Okay. Well, is there anything bad? Is there anything, how has it changed your life? Has it changed your life at all, the Coronavirus?
Albany Dudley: No.
Stacy Dudley: No?
Albany Dudley: Yes.
Stacy Dudley: Okay. Tell me how.
Albany Dudley: It’s cause we can only drive around. We can’t go in any stores.
Stacy Dudley: Yeah, you can’t go in any stores. Has it changed anything else?
Albany Dudley: No.
Stacy Dudley: What’s the best thing that’s come from the Coronavirus?
Albany Dudley: I do like that we’re home.
Stacy Dudley: You like that you’re home?
Albany Dudley: Yes.
Neil Dudley: We like that too. And I’m glad you came up here and told everybody a little bit about what you think or how the Coronavirus affects-
One other quick shout out TCP Nation. I got to give a big thank you to Byron Hill Music. He provides all the background music for the podcast. He’s a member of the Nashville Songwriter Hall of Fame. I highly recommend you go check him out. Google it: B Y R O N H I L L. I’m sure you’ll be glad you did.
Babe, that’s been fun talking to you. I enjoyed it. I think we’ve talked about a lot of cool stuff. Is there anything else that you have on your mind that you’re like, man, I just want to tell the people this?
Stacy Dudley: No, I don’t have great- I’ve got no great input.
Neil Dudley: Okay, cool. We’ll call that good for this episode of the Coronavirus quarantine Cowboy Perspective. Thanks for listening. Stace, thanks for being on the podcast. I love you. Once again, I hope our conversation is something that you find value in. I’ve enjoyed having it. I enjoy putting some of this out there just for anybody and everybody just to hear, think about. And we even said it in a podcast, we’re no brilliant people that have all the answers. We have lived through a few things. We’ve had some experiences and those things probably could be leaned on by a number of people in a million different ways. We love sharing that. I’m glad I get a chance to share it with you. I’m glad Stacy was a part of this. I hope you’ve enjoyed. Until next time, see you later.