Neil Dudley: The Cowboy Perspective, well, it might be hard to define, but I guarantee if you think about it, you’ve got one in mind. Whether you’re building a legacy, an empire, or a fan base, I bet when your friends look at you, they see some cowboy in your face. Y’all come along, let’s talk about this or that. Maybe when we’re done, you’ll go away with another perspective to put under your hat.
The Cowboy Perspective is back again with a really fun episode and exciting look behind the scenes or into the mindset of a CEO. Now let me paint the picture for you a little bit. Steven Toboroff who is our guest today is the CEO, owner of a company called Woolco Foods. In all honesty, I didn’t know much about Woolco Foods. We’ve been selling them some bacon. It’s been interesting; we’ve had some issues with the trucks getting there on time, etc. Well, anyways, Mike Levinson, a guy kind of here at Pederson’s, our Director of Food Service Sales nationally, was just solving those problems, taking care of the customer, and doing what needed to be done, and in the process of that, he met Steven. So, they talked a little bit and I think, I don’t know, Mike’d have to chime in here somehow. He just called me immediately and said, Neil, you need to get this guy on your podcast. So, I did. And Steven was nice enough to join, come on, tell us about what he thinks, how he thinks, his perspective on business, customer service, employees or businesspeople that you work with in your business as you build it and try to be successful. We talk about a lot of interesting things, and I just align so much with his thought processes and how he does business. So, I thought, man, this is so great. I’m excited. I want to share it with everybody. I hope you enjoy it. And here we go.
Hey everybody, real quick, I got to let you know if poor audio offends you, you might want to fast forward past the first 10 minutes. I committed the cardinal sin – I forgot to hit record on my Zoom 86 recorder when Steven and I did this. So, the first 10 minutes are audio pulled from our Zoom audio; it is not the best. Just a heads up. Here we go.
Steven-
Steven Toboroff: How are you, Neil?
Neil Dudley: I’m awesome. Good to see you, sir. Well, I’m interested in you; I have been listening to your podcast. It’s really insightful for me as a guy that doesn’t know- I mean, I’m in the meat business, but more in a retail slant, I guess you might call it. So, it’s been really valuable to me to hear the perspective from the food service side of things, especially from the New York side of things. There’s a definite difference just from living in Texas to living in New York and doing business there and understanding the culture and how that all works. So really excited for my audience to get a chance to hear what you think about things and what it is Woolco Foods does.
Steven Toboroff: I appreciate that, Neil. Thanks for having me on. I look forward to it.
Neil Dudley: So, for everybody that’s wondering who the heck is Neil talking to and what are they talking about, well, this is Steven Toboroff. He is the CEO of Woolco Foods. He does a podcast called – what is the name of your podcast? Just so I don’t mess that up.
Steven Toboroff: Sure. It’s called the Profitable Table Fed by Woolco Foods.
Neil Dudley: Yes. I love that kind of illustration or Fed by Woolco Foods – that’s kind of a cool way to think about how the podcast even comes to life, topics fed by Woolco Foods. I have a tendency to want to talk about Woolco Foods first, but let’s give everybody an idea of who you are just quickly so they have a reference point.
Steven Toboroff: Sure, sure. I was born and raised in New York City, went to college out in Chicago, and came back from college. And my dad was always an entrepreneur when I was growing up, he owned several ice cream stores, and then after my parents got divorced, he started in the food service business and built up a company that sold primarily butter, eggs, and poultry. And when I was 27, after coming back to New York, I did a few different jobs. I even worked at Woolco for a little bit, I wound up going to law school. And prior to me going to law school, my dad merged with another gentleman, not related, who sold primarily produce and grocery items. They created Woolco Foods. And my dad passed away unexpectedly in 1999. And his business partner at the time offered me the opportunity to take the shares in the company as opposed to the buyout. And although I enjoyed the law and had finished law school and passed the bar, I was really always much more interested in business. So, I decided to take that route and got involved with Woolco then in 1999 and became CEO and have been doing it since. They were originally for many years on Gansevoort Street in Manhattan. In 2004, we moved our facilities to two and a half acres out here in Jersey City, one mile outside the Holland Tunnel. And just love it ever since. I really enjoy business. I enjoy the challenges. I like entrepreneurship and am very happy that I made that decision.
Neil Dudley: I’m guessing a lot of your customers are happy that you made that decision, too. I think you guys take an approach to business that is appreciative or appreciated, and it’s funny how people a lot of times I feel like lose sight of the relationship vendors and customers have. It’s not just one sided, it’s a support mechanism on both sides, especially through this pandemic. I could imagine you’ve had to hold a lot of your customers up or help them in a lot of ways.
Steven Toboroff: No question about that, Neil. I mean, I feel like it really is about relationships and that’s a commonly used phrase. But watching my dad start this business and sitting on them and sitting in the truck with him when he would deliver eggs to different restaurants, you have it really ingrained in you from a young age, the relationship that you can have with your customers and that it’s not all transactional. During this pandemic, that went to a whole other level, and we absolutely did everything we could for all of our customers. And quite frankly, they were there for us too, really strengthened those relationships. And I think it’s such an important part of business that is often overlooked – the human side of things, the relationship, and just caring about people, getting to know them. And it’s very gratifying when you have that type of relationship, and you really see it during challenging times.
Neil Dudley: Totally. Well, I guess, full transparency, Pederson’s does a little business with Woolco and we appreciate you guys for that and look forward to finding ways to grow that business. And that’s not really the reason for the podcast, but it’s just kind of cool to say, wow, I wouldn’t have probably ever met you if it hadn’t been for one of the guys on the sales team saying, hey, I had a chance to talk to the CEO of Woolco and he’s a really cool guy. Matter of fact, he has a podcast, you should check it out. Whatever we may learn, it just might shape into a way that we can help you guys help somebody, and at the end of the day, that’s what it’s all about.
Steven Toboroff: Absolutely. And it’s been one of the many positives of doing a podcast, on my end. I started it as a way to bring a certain type of content to the market that I felt wasn’t as prevalent as it should be, which are podcasts that are a little bit geared towards the business side of things or a little bit geared towards the lifestyle mindset and other aspects of entrepreneurship. But I’ve met so many great people doing it that I might not have otherwise done and have the opportunity to have conversations. So, I really appreciate that and it’s something that I enjoy doing as well.
Neil Dudley: Yeah. And nothing replaces that opportunity to just talk and get to know somebody, and the podcast for me is just a good excuse for that. A lot of times, man, I’d like to talk to that person, and if you can go in there and say I’d like to have you on my podcast then sometimes they’re like, okay, well, that’s interesting, you’re not just here to sell me something or try to garner some piece of information out of me that you just want for yourself. You kind of want to share this, this knowledge or this opportunity, this conversation with others, and hopefully they’ll find value in it too. So, on growing up, etc., being in the business, do you have siblings? What were your parents like? To me, you represent or seem to be a kind of driven guy, and I wonder for my listeners, where do you think that comes from?
Steven Toboroff: Well, I’m an only child and my parents got divorced when I was five. My dad lived close by and would see him every other weekend and my mother worked. But I think I was very blessed with the parents that I had on many levels. My mother was somebody who never, I can honestly say, I don’t think she ever said anything harsh or derogatory. She was always saying positive things to me and encouraging me and was very much my biggest fan so to speak. My dad who absolutely loved me, he was a guy that there were certain things he refused to accept. He did not accept any arrogance. He valued hard work and character above all else. He valued people that performed. He was kind of old school in that. And I’m very fortunate because my dad passed away when I was 28, when my dad passed away, my mother had already had some health issues, almost advanced Alzheimer’s or some neurological thing like that, and I really understood the value of the lessons that they taught me, primarily my dad about handling your responsibility and taking pride in what you do and being responsible. And at times when I thought he might’ve been a little tough or handling me in a rough way, he really was helping me out. And I think as I’ve gotten older, I’ve really come to appreciate life so much, and I think that’s what makes me, and I appreciate you using the word driven, but I just like to push myself and see where I can go and keep trying to improve. And I absolutely think the foundation that my parents gave me, my mother gave me sort of unbridled confidence. My dad, I wouldn’t say knocking me down a peg, but my dad always saying, listen, don’t tell me what you’re going to do, show me. You don’t need to be talking about yourself, your work product’s going to speak for you. And that’s all I need to hear. I don’t need you to tell me what you did, who you did, whatever. I’ll look at your work product and I’ll figure it out from that.
Neil Dudley: I like to talk to the guy that helps me produce this when we’re going through because that’s like a yeehaw moment. What your dad taught you is valuable. If you happen to not have a dad or mom that’s teaching you those lessons and you’re listening to the Cowboy Perspective podcast, yeehaw to what Steven was just talking about how your word is important. You don’t need to go walking around telling everybody what you did yesterday. They’ll see it. When you’re doing good, it will be noticed. I think that’s just a really great lesson for anybody that doesn’t already know that, or you might be thinking that’s how it is. I got taught a lot of those same things with the cowboys that I worked with – oh yeah, Neil, you just rode that bucking horse, yippee, cool, shut up, we’ve all done it, it’s nothing special. All right. So, tell everybody a little bit, a little bit or a lot, what does Wooco Foods do?
Steven Toboroff: So Woolco Foods is a broad line distributor, which essentially means that we sell hotels or restaurants or caterers or institutions, bakeries, bars, anybody in the hospitality industry pretty much everything they would use to run their business. So, whether it’s paper goods, whether it’s fresh produce, whether it’s protein items, dairy, whatever, we sell that. And the way that we really differentiate ourselves is through the service, because at the end of the day, there are certain ways to differentiate yourself based on your product line, based on your selection, and that’s extremely important and we try to do that. But Woolco Foods is essentially a service. All of our customers rely on us to get them their product when they want it, have the order fill rate the way it needs to be, the quality the way it needs to be. And so, we’re there to give our customers the support that they need from the most basic level of bringing them their products to anything we need to do to help them – answering questions, offering suggestions, bringing in specials, really be a value-added partner or a value-added participant in their business. And to even make it simpler for people in other parts of the country, if you’re familiar with Cisco or US Foods, we’re like them but regional. We go from Philadelphia to Connecticut, but a big concentration of what we do, the main concentration, is the New York area and the state of New Jersey.
Neil Dudley: You just answered my next question perfectly. I was going to say what’s your geographical reach and you already told them that. So, you were talking a little bit about how your dad led you. Let’s explore the importance of leadership within an organization, within Woolco Foods, within other things you do. I find it a big challenge in my life to continually improve that, make my leadership be what my company needs, not what I want it to be. So, what do you think about that?
Steven Toboroff: I think it’s a great question. I think it’s probably the most important thing that I think about within the organization. And it was- it is revealed to me every day. There’s a number of dimensions to it, but the most important beginning part, the foundation in my opinion, is leadership starts with yourself. You need to try every day to embody the characteristics and the attributes and the behaviors that you want other people to embody if you’re talking about leading your team. So, if you walk around as a negative person or as a rude person or as somebody that doesn’t show up on time or does poor work or any attribute that you embody, people are going to notice that about you first. And if it’s not in alignment with what you’re asking other people to do, that’s going to create a negative disconnect for your ability to lead people. So, it starts with leading yourself. You have to have a set of core values that matter to you. So, in my case, I kind of went through some of them, but as it pertains to business, first and foremost is the customer. If someone’s having a conversation with me and there’s an issue with a customer, we end that conversation. If there’s three problems at Woolco and one’s about the customer and there’s other things, the one with the customer goes first. And that just starts with me and everything I do is related to that. Then it- when you’re in a service business, how you treat people, how you talk to people is everything. So, I make it a point to treat everybody within this organization, my colleagues, my teammates, whatever you want to call them, with respect. I begin everything with “please.” I end everything with “thank you” because that’s how I want the customers to be treated. And that’s how I want people to work with one another. So, if I’m going around as a rude person, or if I’m short, and then I say, hey, you’ve got to be nice to the customer, you got to treat your colleagues with respect, they’re going to view me as a fraud. And then, another extremely important part of leadership is you need to constantly be communicating to people a positive and actionable vision of where you’re taking the organization. And that was extremely important during the pandemic because there were times here in New York and New Jersey where it was bleak, and it seems like this industry was under attack. And I was just speaking to everybody at Woolco, most particularly my sales team, and I said, guys, I’m not interested in what the news says or what the vibe is or what other people’s issues are, we’re going to get out there and communicate solutions, empathy, a sense of certainty to everybody. Okay? So that they know we’re here. And once this thing passes, we’re going to be the company or the people or the individuals that they remember who did that. And it just carries through during times now. You have to be constantly letting people know, okay, here’s where we’re going, we’re going to get to this place, these are our goals, and here’s how we’re going to get there. And I think those are some of the main things about leadership and really responsibilities that the CEO has to shoulder first and foremost before anything else.
Neil Dudley: Do you feel like it’s lonely at the top?
Steven Toboroff: Yeah, I do. I do. I mean, sometimes it’s very lonely because I mean, there were many days – I’ve been doing this since 1999, Neil, and by the grace of God, things are going super well now, okay, and we went into the pandemic, we had made a lot of decisions about how we deal with risk and how we had our balance sheet set up that we always knew we going to ride it out. But there were moments where it was very, as I said before, bleak. I’d been through 9/11, 2008, Hurricane Sandy, all of which were horrible tragedies on a personal front, but from a business challenge, they were not a big deal. This was unlike anything I’d ever seen. And there were days, of course I’m human like anybody else, where I’m waking up and I’m anxious or I’m concerned or I didn’t sleep well the night before, I can’t bring that energy. I can’t do that when people are relying on me. So yeah, it’s at those times where it is kind of lonely and it is kind of like, okay, this is your responsibility and no one’s going to handle it but you, but just get after it.
Neil Dudley: That’s where you, those lessons your dad taught you became valuable. I mean, I think anybody striving to go be a CEO of a company or own a company, entrepreneurs, people, you need to understand that you’ve got to start building some tools early in your career, even in your childhood, to understand and be able to live with that, I call it loneliness, but what it is just the responsibility. It’s the there’s no person above you to lay it on. You’re the person that has to pick that ball up and run with it, and you can’t look around for somebody else to do. I think you can build a team that’s certainly going to help you, be in the fox hole with you, do all those things, but you’ll have to have the strength, just like Steven said, just wake up every morning, shake off whatever those fears or anxieties you might have, deal with them, and then go represent your company in a way that is believable and people want to follow. I struggle with that at times. And sometimes I don’t do enough communicating of my vision or what I want to see happen. I just kind of miss a little bit of that buy-in from the team because they’re just trying to guess what the big picture is. So, I work on that pretty often. I make sure I’m painting that big picture for everybody so they can buy into it and be excited about it.
Steven Toboroff: Yep. And then even within that context, just following up on what you were saying, Neil, on two points that you made, what I also try to do, and it’s helpful, is you give people the shared vision and you have an actionable way to get there, but I also like to let people go about it in their own way, meaning the more creative you can let your team be or the more individual responsibility they can have for their tasks or their department, the better it is because everybody wants to be creative. So, I don’t like to lead from the point like this is where we’re going. That’s kind of everybody likes that, but you must do it this way, this way and this way. If you have a different way of doing it, I like to hear it. Or you don’t even have to tell me about it because the results are going to be there. But I appreciate what you said there, and then, something I would also want to just add, Neil, because I know you’d mentioned faith in one of the intros or perhaps it was in one of your other podcasts, when I was in those challenging moments, those sleepless nights, that’s when faith really kicks in too, more than ever. And the most precious thing in my life is my relationship with God. My son asked me a question about, I don’t know, two months ago when this whole thing was starting to wind down, what was the best lesson I learned or what was something that came out of it? And I told him the best thing was my relationship with God got even stronger. And I say that to share with people, not to push religion or whatever anybody has, that’s not what I’m trying to say here. I just want to be fully honest that that was what really gave me the strength to go after it and something that I look back on and like, wow, that was something else.
Neil Dudley: Absolutely. I talk about faith a lot. I have- I’m a born-again Christian, I have a relationship with God as a part of my life. So, I feel like it’d be ungenuine, disingenuine, I don’t know the exact correct English term for it, but it wouldn’t be real if I didn’t bring that into these conversations. I would encourage anybody that’s not- that doesn’t have a relationship with God to explore the idea, but I’m not saying that that’s for you or any other thing. It is for me, and I so appreciate you bringing that up. And I think it’s a great reason, it gives me another opportunity just to encourage everybody, look, I’ve talked to a lot of people on the podcast. Steven, I mean, we met over the phone three weeks ago and now we’re recording a podcast together. I mean, I’ve not shaped him up in any way to say anything, he’s telling just his truth. And so, I think it’d be good to just take that into your thought process and perspective and see how it might play. It might be a thing you could add to your life that could be really rewarding. I always like exploring – failure’s the wrong word, but I’ve not found a better way to put it. What is a thing, a stumble in business, a misstep in your life, a so-called failure that you’ve learned a lot from that you think would be valuable to share? I learn the most from my own personal failures seems like.
Steven Toboroff: Yeah, no, I agree with you a lot and I think that’s a great question. I think probably if I were to think about it, it would be how I’ve evolved over time in terms of dealing with other people. I think when I was younger, in my twenties and was more into partying, and that was a big part of my life, I didn’t feel truly secure about myself because I was out there partying, and I was trying to present to the world this image of somebody that was successful. So, I would have on fancy watches, or I would do all these different things. But as I got older, I realized they were just props that I was putting forth into the world so that, hey, before you look at me, look at all this stuff so I must be valid. Then I learned that that was backwards thinking. But I think during those periods of transition, there was probably, I think that was my biggest mistake, but my biggest learning experience, recognizing that you don’t need to do or behave or have anything to be valid with anyone else. What you need to do to be valid is to be authentic and honest with yourself. And if you can learn that early on, you’ll be good.
Neil Dudley: Yeah. And it’s- I think I lived a very similar reality. So, I don’t know. I think it’s just immaturity or that’s the thing I talk about, if I could just plug into my kids’ self-esteem, if I could just, man, give them that and they can have that forever and always, that would be the thing I’d want to give them. I mean, there’s a lot of other great things. It seems to be one I struggled with, even today, I mean, I could still say I have problems at times, even with the podcast, say I’m not getting enough downloads, well, I want to say that must mean I’m not doing good. Really, that’s just low self-esteem or poor mental tape recorder playing. The truth is I’m doing a thing I enjoy. I love getting to meet you. I love to have this conversation. I love to hear the way you think about things. It gives me a chance to audit the way I think about stuff. And maybe I could think about it differently or better or in a more mature way. So, I love it. If nobody listens, it’s still very valuable to me. So why do I want to pick out something to start judging myself on. Don’t do that people, Steven’s totally right.
Steven Toboroff: You’re absolutely right, Neil, and it’s so well put. Judging ourselves doesn’t do any good. If we want to do honest assessments of ourselves and hold ourselves accountable, that’s very valuable, but it has to be done within the context of moving forward in a positive direction, not as an opportunity to just beat ourselves up or languish in past mistakes. That’s no good whatsoever.
Neil Dudley: Totally. And this maybe ties to leadership a little bit, I’m curious, there has to be times in your career you’ve needed to hold an employee or a counterpart accountable and to a standard. How do you do that? Very carefully?
Steven Toboroff: You have to do it carefully because you know that you’re dealing with other people and people have feelings. And I enjoy reading, it’s one of my hobbies. And I would, I’ll share with you that probably the most important book I’ve read and from a business standpoint and a personal standpoint is How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. A lot of people don’t like the title and that’s fine, but the book is really good. When I have to deal with people and correct them, first off, I do it in a totally non-emotional way. There’s no anger behind it. There’s no grand standing behind it. There’s no, none of that because there’s no place for that in business. Second of all, I don’t belittle anybody or make them, or do everything I can to not make them feel belittled because nine times out of ten – not ten times out of ten – but nine times out of ten, people are doing stuff that they think is right even if their thinking is misguided. So, if I have to correct somebody, let’s say it’s something where I don’t like the way somebody spoke to a customer, I will just say, hey, listen, this customer called up and they had an issue with the way that you spoke to them, and this is what they heard, and this is how it occurred to them. And obviously we can’t have our customers feel that way. Then I let the person express themselves. You listen to what they’re saying. You digest it, you process. And depending upon how important that person is in the organization or what their track record is with you or how sincere you think they are, you can go in a couple of directions. Okay, well, just so you know, this is how you came across. This has never happened with you before. I know you have the best interest of the company at heart. I know you’re not that type of person, but with this particular customer, this is somebody just to be a little bit on guard for. If it’s somebody that’s with the organization that’s new or it’s repeated issue, then you have to say, look, this isn’t the first time this has happened, and you’re on warning, we don’t accept this here. And then the final point I’d say is it’s very important to let people know, and this goes back to leadership, like you said, or values, let people know from the beginning what is not acceptable when it comes to interacting with their coworkers or with the customer so that people aren’t confused. Now, if I’m the type of person that goes around here talking crazy to people and raising my voice and getting in my moods, well then people are going to think that’s okay. But if you let people know from the beginning that that’s not acceptable or not following instructions are not acceptable, you have to let it be known in the beginning. But when you speak to people and correct them, don’t get emotional, do not belittle, communicate clearly, let them say their piece, then when you’re finished, say, okay, you understand where I’m coming from? Do we get each other here? And then move on.
Neil Dudley: Absolutely. And I like to say and do it now. Like don’t wait – if there’s a thing percolating here that needs to be dealt with, don’t say, well, I’ll get to that next week. I like to always say if I’ve got any kind of thing that needs to be addressed, I want to do it now and just be as honest and straightforward as I could possibly be. And I think if I do that, then they do that with each other. And all of a sudden, you’ve got a culture where people aren’t scared to just say how it is and also are able to take a criticism. Like to me, being capable of having someone tell you how you could be better is one of the most undervalued characteristics of people in the world.
Steven Toboroff: I completely agree with you, Neil. I think that’s something that if everybody gets, if you can learn to not- And that was another character flaw that I had also, I would get very defensive, which goes back to insecurity. When I was younger or early on, I had that insecurity or that defensive thing, and it prevented me from learning a lot. It prevented me from getting better. And I think you’re absolutely right. If you can have a team around you where people understand, look, just because I’m trying to improve or correct a behavior and action, I’m not criticizing you as a person, listen to it, process it, see- make it work for you. And I completely agree with you there.
Neil Dudley: I tell everybody there’s a chance what I’m telling you is not right. It’s just my best- It’s the best way I know today. You might turn around and give me feedback that restructures the whole thing because I find a flaw in my thought process, or I’ve learned something new that I just didn’t know before. We talk about a lot of times with just our products at Pederson’s, we make them as good as we know how to make them. That doesn’t mean they’re the best they can be. That’s just as good as we know how to make them. There may be new information that comes to us, new ingredients, new processing techniques, millions of different things that we just didn’t know about that actually makes our product better. It doesn’t mean that five years ago we were not doing it the best we knew how or trying to cheat somebody or cut a corner. No, we just didn’t know yet. So, and I think I so appreciate people that can allow that truth to play. Like, hey, people have to learn a little bit. Companies have to learn.
Steven Toboroff: Yep. No, one’s perfect.
Neil Dudley: Yep. And oh, I was going to say, just one illustration for the listeners, I had a team member at Pederson’s that, you’re doing a lot of these Zoom calls now thanks to the pandemic and virtual interaction instead of in-person, and this guy’s a top notch, all-star team member. And he had- I had got a call from somebody, one of our customers, and they’re like, well, he didn’t get along very good with this person on our team. They said he was rolling his eyes during the virtual phone call. And I just told him that. And he said, wow, thanks for telling me, I need- I might have, I wasn’t rolling my eyes on purpose, or I could have yawned or something. But he would have never known. He couldn’t have then been more attentive in the next conversation with that person. As it turns out he was, he has, that whole relationship has really blossomed, and yay, we’re moving forward. And I’ve been around people that just couldn’t accept some feedback like that, that the straight response would have been, oh no, I didn’t, they’re just bad word or something. He was like, okay, cool, thank you for telling me. I appreciate that. I’ll pay attention to that.
Steven Toboroff: You’re right. And when you have those types of people who can’t hear criticism, those are not the best people to have in an organization long-term because there’s very little you can do because they’re not really listening. And if you’re never capable of self-assessment, how can you get better? And it’s just tough. Because again, the business isn’t run for the benefit of anyone’s feelings, mine included. It is run for the benefit of the customer and to move forward. And if people are hung up on their own defensive interpretation and not listening, those are tough people to have in an organization. That’s for sure.
Neil Dudley: You bet. And you said the key word to me is listening. As a salesperson, if you care about a customer, listen to them. They’ll tell you what they need. And I have a tough time with that because I want to get in front of them and tell them all of our benefits, this is how come we’re great. They don’t care. There’s 20 other people just like me that are just as great. What I think Woolco does just from watching you and listening to you is pay attention to their needs and then deliver on what they need. That’s where you really become a customer centric business. So high five. Congratulations on that.
Steven Toboroff: Thank you. And I couldn’t agree with you more.
Neil Dudley: Quick pause just to say I hope you know who Pederson Natural Farms is. If you don’t, go check them out, www.pedersonsfarms.com. If you have any questions, hit me up. I’ve been working with Pederson’s and my best friend since kindergarten and his wife and my wife and a whole bunch of other really great people for about 20 years now, building a brand and a bunch of products that we think really add value to people’s healthy lifestyles. And I like to say the Cowboy Perspective podcast is a labor of love that I kind of do in my spare time. And I hope to just bring value, tell stories about people that affect me and give me the perspective I have. And I don’t want to steal that labor of love line from Mr. Douglas Burdett, the host of the Marketing Book podcast, without giving him some credit. There’s another something I’d tell you – if you are into building a brand or an entrepreneur of any sort, salesperson of any sort, go listen to the Marketing Book podcast. He reviews great authors’ books about sales and marketing. So, Pederson Natural Farms, go check them out. Thank you for listening to the Cowboy Perspective.
Hey, everybody, quick break in the action to tell you a little bit about one of the sponsors for the podcast, thesimplegrocer.com. Get on your internet, go check them out. They carry all kinds of great products. You may have heard us talking about them here on the Cowboy Perspective, some of the brands they support. So, follow up, go check it out. If you choose to place an order, use TCP in the discount code, and we’ll hook you up with a deal. Go check them out, thesimplegrocer.com.
What is one of the things that is most challenging for you guys or you in this kind of post pandemic at this point? Or would you call it post pandemic? Are we still in it? In Texas, it feels post-pandemic. I mean, pretty much everybody’s took the masks off, opened up fully, kind of back to normal.
Steven Toboroff: We’re almost there. I would absolutely call it post-pandemic. The way that it was handled here in New York and New Jersey was very different than Texas, but the biggest challenge we’re facing now, because things have opened up fully, and sales have come back to a level that I did not expect would be this robust this soon in the recovery. So, the biggest challenges that we’re facing now, and these are macro challenges, and I happen to think we’re navigating them better than anyone else, but they’re just, some of them are outside of our control, there’s still some supply chain shortages of products. And that can be from companies as big as Coca-Cola who are having issues with getting aluminum to the price of soy oil and chicken wings and other commodities going through the roof. So, it’s a challenge to just let the customers know, hey, listen, we’re not raising prices right now. If anything, we’re absorbing as much of this as we can. There’s just some issues that have to be worked out. And stuff that’s being imported into America, there’s all kinds of issues there. Because we’re important so much- We’re importing so much stuff relative to what we’re sending over that there’s a shortage of cargo and all of that. So that’s challenge one. And then, challenge two, which thank God our team’s done a great job navigating, is when you ramp up your sales like 50, 60, 70% in a very short amount of time, everybody’s got to get with the tempo. And I think that we’ve done a very good job of that, and we’re just going out there now and I think just letting everybody know, hey, listen, whatever you need, we’re here. We’re going to get it done. If it’s something that we can’t get done because it’s out of our control, we’re going to communicate it to you. And I think as long as we do that, then we’re dealing with the biggest issue. You don’t want a customer walking around thinking that the problems that they’re facing are a by-product of something that’s unique to you. It doesn’t mean it’s an excuse because there’s no excuses in business. So, it’s our responsibility to let people know, listen, this is what’s going on in the larger market, here are some alternatives for you, here’s when we think things are going to stabilize, etc. But I would say we are post pandemic and things have ramped up really nicely and heading into Memorial Day weekend.
Neil Dudley: Oh yeah. So, this I guess might be the first kind of holiday season or holiday weekend post pandemic kind of nationwide. I’d say Texas may have had one, maybe Easter or something. But I think we were, where was I? I was somewhere – oh, we went on a Mother’s Day weekend trip. I took my mom and my mother-in-law, and my dad and my father-in-law, we went to some ranch rodeos and it’s this Western heritage thing in Abilene, Texas. And every hotel was sold out. Every restaurant was booked two hours deep, standing room only. And they were just loving it. I mean, the waitresses were sweating and tired and loving every second of it. They just said we haven’t had this kind of business since before the pandemic. So, I was so excited and happy to see that.
Steven Toboroff: No, that’s the same here, Neil. I mean, one of the things that I was telling everybody in the midst of the pandemic is I said, look, every other news story is about the restaurant industry, which shows you how much people love this business, that love going out to eat. And every- you can’t get a table in New York. They’ve made a number of changes in New York, which are going to be very positive for the long-term that came out of the pandemic. One was this a lot more outdoor seating that all these restaurants, not all of them, but a number of them have these beautiful outdoor setups that people can eat outside in. And now they’ve got the indoor opened up and it’s just what you said. These places are booming. I think here, I don’t know if this is as much of a problem in Texas, but out here, a lot of the restaurants and this goes from the Jersey Shore through New York City are having a difficult time finding staff. And that’s a challenge that they’re facing, but it’s exactly the way you described it out here too. And it’s just great to see that again because, you know, it’s something everybody wanted.
Neil Dudley: Absolutely. I was going to mention that staffing issue. Now the restaurants had two-hour wait lists and that kind of thing, but they were only putting people in half the tables because they didn’t have the staff to fill the restaurant up. I mean, please, people, go back to work. I don’t know. I think people are still going to do the thing that’s most advantageous to them. I can beg them to come back to work – hey, get back out there. It’s going to be very valuable for you to feel the, I guess, pressure of a job and the pressure of earning your living. Well, and it’s a good topic. I’m curious what you think about it. Like why is it so hard to find labor these days? I have- I think it’s partially because of some government bailout stuff. But what do you think?
Steven Toboroff: I think that the primary reason is the government bailout stuff. I think what’s happened is when you have enhanced unemployment, people who are looking at that, they’re going to make an economic judgment and they’re going to say to themselves, well look, if I’m making X number of dollars and I can stay at home and do whatever I’m doing, and I’m enjoying that, then I’m going to do that. And unless- and not everybody is going to be driven to come back even if they can make more money working. If their needs are met and they’re happy and it’s economically feasible for them to do it, I think that’s the dynamic that’s been created. And I don’t think that that’s going to reverse for a lot of people until that enhanced unemployment runs out. I think for some people, which is good, I think some of the workers have a little bit more negotiating power, and my own suggestion for people who are sitting back and thinking about it, I think that the people that go back to the workforce now have more leverage and they’re more sought after. And so, if you know you’re going to have to get back out there, whether it’s in a month, two months, or three months, if I were to make a suggestion, it would be to get out there before the enhanced unemployment ends. Because if they don’t extend it, which I think is a low probability, there’s going to be a huge number of people coming back into the workforce. And that whole dynamic is going to shift. But in answer to your question, I just think that there’s a section of people who are just going to say, look, I’m making enough to live and I’m happy with what I’m making, more money doesn’t get me excited, so as long as I got this coming in, I’m going to just do what I’m doing and deal with it down the road.
Neil Dudley: It’s me putting myself in their place, and I can’t say I exactly know. I mean, we’ve been lucky enough to stay working the whole time. I am a leader of a business so I would say probably my income doesn’t necessarily marry up right to maybe some of the people we’re talking about. I could see, I want to say, this could be totally unfair, but I can’t help it, I just only want to talk about it because I don’t even mind being called an idiot. Look, that’s a bad perspective; why are you even saying that? But I think a lot of them don’t see the hope in having more. I mean, I feel like sometimes you get into this brain space where this isn’t all I want, but it’s all I’ll ever be able to have. So why put any more effort into it than necessary or why go through that strain. I so encourage and hope that even this podcast or find some podcast, find somebody that convinces you that don’t turn loose of that hope. If you want more, you can have it. That’s what America’s all about.
Steven Toboroff: I agree with you whole heartedly. And I think now is a great time whether it’s to be an entrepreneur and start a business, or if you enjoy where you work or you’re looking for a job, I think there’s going to be lots of job opportunities. And I agree with you. I mean, again, I can’t judge anybody that I haven’t been in their experience. I don’t do that. I don’t know what people’s circumstances are. So, but I do think on a macro level, the point you’re making, which makes a lot of sense to me, is don’t sell yourself short. If there’s something you want to pursue, if there’s something you want to go after, this is still the place to do it. I mean, again, something I said to- I have three kids, my oldest son is 15, my middle guy is 14, my daughter’s 11, and not to be political at all but just to teach my children something, and this is not a political statement, this is a teaching thing for my kids, that I saw this video of this young child that had walked by herself trying to get into America. And I said to my kids, I said think about how lucky we are. There’s people risking their lives just to get here. And we’re here already. So how dare us not maximize that opportunity for whatever we want to be. And everything is not all about money. You want to be the best philanthropist or work at a travel organization or be an artist, but don’t lose sight of that because I was really humbled by watching that. And I did want my kids to understand it and say, hey, before you start complaining or get bored, check yourself and think about it.
Neil Dudley: Absolutely. I challenge our media in this country to start- It seems if you watch it, you’re just going to get low and low and low and think, aw, man, we’re going to hell in a hand basket, there’s nothing good. But if you talk to the Americans, they’re all still waving the flag of this is the greatest country on earth. I mean, Democrat, Republican, whatever, we still have the most opportunity. My last guest, which the episode publishing this Friday, which I guess this is May the 27th. So, people that are listening to this can go back to the Rocky Zapata episode. He’s a guy that was born in Nicaragua, and at age seven, him and his mom had to get out of there due to civil war and crazy stuff going on, and he came to America and is like, man, you can have anything in this country, just go get it. We live in the greatest place. We’re so jaded as Americans a lot of times that almost ought to have to be required to go live somewhere like that for five years just to understand when you come back what you have.
Steven Toboroff: I so agree with you, Neil. And if you went back like to last March or April, I made the decision because we were facing the challenge the pandemic was in, and I said the only thing I’m focusing my attention on is either doing what I need to do for my business and my family. I don’t have any bandwidth for negativity. I don’t have any bandwidth for distractions. If it’s not going to make me a better person, help me in my business or handling my responsibilities as a husband and a father, I’m not with it. And what’s interesting, Neil, so, I watched- I wasn’t a big news consumer to begin with, but now if I walk past, like if my wife has on one of the news channels while she’s doing something and I hear it, you really hear how unproductive it is, that it is all just negativity and dividing people and these stories that are not uplifting and not help. And you’re absolutely right, it has nothing to do with politics, it has nothing to do with parties. It just has to do with saying, hey, what are the opportunities that are available and being grateful and going after them and being aware of it. And I think you’re right. And I don’t have a lot of time for people that just want to point out the negative or run anything down because there’s not a lot of value in that for me.
Neil Dudley: Yeah. I totally agree. Gratitude. Like me and the girls sit down – I’ve got three daughters – we sit down and just write one thing we’re grateful for every morning in a book. And it’s just a book that’s just running of days and days and days of us writing down, maybe it’s I don’t have an earache this morning. It could be the simplest thing, but I say now today, when you go and life punches you and you have a friend bully you, or something happens that makes you sad, go to this gratitude right here, what we wrote this morning and say I’m grateful. And you can spin yourself right out of that hole that you could just go deeper in. And they’re not great at it. I’m not great at it. It takes work. It’s not a thing you can just flip on. But I really think it’s important and they seem to enjoy it. Some mornings one of them won’t have a gratitude, it’s okay. But the next day they have a great one or one that’s valuable to them. They’re not going to remember most of them when we’re all- when I’m 70 and they’re 40. They’re not going to remember everyone that’s in that book, but they’ll pick one or two that stick with them. My dad did that for me. I would be down, I’m not going to be the starting quarterback, or I threw a bad pass or interception, something. And he’d just been like, well, have you spent any time thinking about all the things that are great about your life? And that was really valuable advice.
Steven Toboroff: Absolutely. Gratitude is so important. And just following up on what you said, and this is something that I practice all the time and I’ve shared with my kids and other people, I try to get in the habit of asking myself good questions. The brain is going to answer a question that we give it. So, if I go around and say, well, why does this stink? Or why is this happening? Or why is everything this? Your brain will give you an answer. But if you ask a different question such as how can I turn this around? What opportunities are available to me today? What can I do right now? You’ll get answers to that. So, I think leading with gratitude is so important, just a much better way to go through life. I couldn’t agree with you more.
Neil Dudley: A good example recently is the pandemic as it created a lot of uncertainty and change. And I tried to hyper focus on there are tons of opportunities happening right now that people are just totally unaware of or unwilling to think about or look at because they’re dealing with the fear, all the other things that are just coming up now because of the pandemic, please help me find one of those great opportunities. I can’t say that we did, but we were looking at it, so it never felt so like a trudge through the mud to get through it.
Steven Toboroff: Yeah. Same here; that’s great. You always have- there’s always going to be opportunities. And if you’re looking for them, that was kind of what I was trying to share with the sales team. In fact, what I said to my sales team, and I believe this and thank God it’s continued right now, I said to my sales team, I said guys, you will never have a better environment to prospect in then the one you have now because you have people’s attention. Everyone that’s in business right now has got real serious about their business. So, it’s hard to get people’s attention when business is going good and sales are good and everything’s hunky dory. But when you’re facing challenges and everybody- they’re going to listen to you. And thankfully we’re in a great situation now- we’re going to be in the same great situation now because even though business has come back, all these customers are having problems – their vendors aren’t showing up, they’re short of products, whatever – problems create opportunities as well. So, I said, sales team, the gift just keeps on giving because you still have people’s attention. So, I agree with you.
Neil Dudley: All right. Well, we’ve spent a good long time talking. I thank you for your time. This is a question I ask every guest or try to – I’ve missed a few – but just quickly, what is the value of a dollar or a Bitcoin in your mind or in your life?
Steven Toboroff: The value of a dollar in my mind is ultimately, I think I learned from my mother, my mother was a great saver and a great investor. She didn’t go to college, but she understood the value of a dollar. She understood risk. She understood that money can be used to make money. So, in my mind, the value of a dollar to me today is how can I put this dollar to work so that it’s going to do more and create more dollars? Some people, they think what they can buy with it. For me, I’m a big believer in charity, but I know that the more that I can be effective and the more that I can be constructive, the more opportunities I’m going to have to be charitable. So that’s how I look at money. I say what is the opportunity that this dollar creates me? Cryptocurrencies, I don’t- I’m not big into crypto. I don’t know much about them or NFTs, but I would think it’s the same thing. I think your question is more about how to view those things in terms of what you would do with them, not relative to each other. And that’s what it means to me. How can I take this dollar and put it to constructive use so that at some point down the future, this investment or this dollar worked for me instead of just being squandered and gone.
Neil Dudley: Absolutely. You alluded to it earlier in the conversation when you’re talking about I was wearing big watches and rings and trying to put on a persona of some kind of important person because at that time in your life, and I’ve been there, that seems to illustrate the importance. I think the older I get or the wiser I get – I don’t think you have to be old to know this, there’s 20-year-old guys and gals that already know these concepts, I just was kind of slow on the uptake. But man, it’s about that. How can you take the things you’ve built for yourself, multiply them, use them to help others, and the day you die, feel real comfortable with, hey, I did good things in this life, it’s not about the dollars that are in the bank account, it’s about the experience and the journey and the people.
Steven Toboroff: That’s so true. And I think that’s something that businesspeople need to really be mindful of as well. It’s just what you said. It’s not just about the dollars. It’s about the impact. It’s about the legacy. It’s about your character. It’s about the impact you had on other people. And I think that’s ultimately, for me, that’s for sure what counts.
Neil Dudley: Awesome. Well, I appreciate your perspective, your insight, your time, all of those things, your willingness to allow us to use you guys as a distributor to get our products in to the New York market. I mean, it is not a place that I’ve built a strong foundation. So, we look forward to more time to come and hopefully build that better for both of us. But at the end of the day, I hope all the people that listen to the Cowboy Perspective heard what you are in my mind is a genuine good person, out trying to do good things, and you just happen to distribute food daily.
Steven Toboroff: Well, I appreciate that, Neil. I enjoy your podcast, and I’m very grateful that you invited me on. I’ve listened to some of the episodes and have got a lot of value from it. And I appreciate this conversation that we had and the opportunity to talk with you. So, I thank you for inviting me on.
Neil Dudley: And everybody, go check out the Profitable Table Fed by Woolco Foods. I guarantee you’ll enjoy that, especially if you’re a restauranteur or if you’re really anybody that’s interested in playing a role for the restauranteur or somebody that’s in that business, it’s a great place to go find some value and understanding and what is important to the people running those businesses. Steven, have a great one. Take care. We’ll see you around, sir.
Steven Toboroff: Thank you, Neil. Have a great day.
Neil Dudley: Steven, if you’re listening back to this at all, I just say thank you again. You never know how many times you say thank you at the end of the episode into the outro, but I say, who cares? Lots of thank yous are certainly in order for people that spend their time trying to share, just give others, paint the picture of their story for others to maybe learn from. So, Steven, thank you so much for that. And to everybody that did listen, I mean, you’re making this podcast what it is. The fact that you spend some time listening allows me to keep going. So, if you did find anything valuable, tell a friend, go to thecowboyperspective.com website, look at the sponsors’ page. If there’s any way you could do a little business with one of those sponsors, I’d sure appreciate it. Outside of that, love you. Go have a great one and we’ll catch you around the next corner.
The Cowboy Perspective is produced by Neil Dudley and Straight Up Podcasts. Graphics are done by Root & Roam Creative Studio. And the music is by Byron Hill Music.