Neil Dudley: The Cowboy Perspective, well, it might be hard to define, but I guarantee if you think about it, you’ve got one in mind. Whether you’re building a legacy, an empire, or a fan base, I bet when your friends look at you, they see some cowboy in your face. Y’all come along, let’s talk about this or that. Maybe when we’re done, you’ll go away with another perspective to put under your hat.
Hey, everybody, welcome to part 2 with Mr. Kasey Mock. I’m so excited to finish this conversation with Kasey and get it out there for you guys to learn from, debate, all those fun things that come with just hearing another person’s perspective, another person’s thought process, what they believe is important and how they believe you can achieve success. Kasey is just one of those guys I really enjoy, I really respect and look up to. So, without further ado, let’s get on with it. Part 2, here we come. Yee-haw!
I have this inclination you believe your business is the people. It’s only as good as the people within it. Would you say that’s a correct statement or incorrect statement?
Kasey Mock: Absolutely.
Neil Dudley: So, a minute ago you said, if you believe people are the main thing, you’re going to- and then you went into this, and I kind of stopped you and said, well, what do you mean? Why are you saying if? I agree with that statement, I just meant that the people are the thing; that is the thing to worry about, to put your time into, it is what can take your business wherever you want it to go. So that’s the only reason I mentioned that, was I think these two guys on this podcast right now are telling you, it’s not if the people are the most important thing, it is the people are the most important thing. So, you got to get that right.
Kasey Mock: If you look at our website, mockranchers.com, and go to our About Us page, and it might even be- I’m trying to pull it up, but our signal’s not good enough here. Our mission statement says to build businesses that matter with people we value by helping people, helping others accomplish their goals through land ownership. And our vision- So, we have a mission, vision, values, beliefs, and perspective. Our belief is that great businesses, as far as business goes, our belief is that great businesses are defined by amazing people with innovative ideas. So, I want our companies, our family of companies, and this is direct copy from Gary’s values too about business, but I always want our businesses to be willing to grow large enough. So, we create a platform that’s willing to grow large enough so that the very best people that we’re able to get into business with can accomplish all of their goals, no matter how big those goals are, all of those goals inside of our organization without ever needing to or wanting to leave. So, somebody comes to me and says I want another opportunity, or I want partnership, or I want ownership, or whatever the question is that high producers ask, if I have to say no because we haven’t built a platform that allows them to go do that, that’s the biggest cost you’ll ever take on in business. And so, some people look at business and look at life through the lens of scarcity. Some look at it through the lens of abundance. Scarcity would say, well, if I give you that percentage of the business or sell you that percentage of the business, how do I ever get it back? Now I’m always operating on 80% or 70%. Abundance would say, dang, you’re a freight train going to the moon, I want to attach myself to you because 20% of that might be a lot. So do you think abundantly- And again, I believe there’s so much opportunity in the world that you don’t have to think- if you clench onto what you’ve got in your fist, that may not get out, but nothing else can get in either. And how much can you truly hold on?
Neil Dudley: I so love the parable of the three talents in the Bible. And I think about it a lot. It parallels a picture of the ways you can act with the talents God gave you. And picture any of them. It might be the fact that you can talk, the fact that you can smile, those are things, talents. Are you going to bury that and make sure nobody can ever steal it from you? Just going to squander it, totally not have any care or appreciation for it. Or are you going to try to multiply it? So, I don’t- do you happen to know what Bible, what book and verse that parable is in by any wild chance? Anyways, Johnny, we will just tell Johnny and he can look it up. Johnny, I want you to link or at least put in the show notes where this parable of the three talents is in the Bible so somebody can go read it and learn about it. I’ve been in church my whole life. I paralleled the same kind of similar raising to you. I had a brother, but he wasn’t a twin, he was three years younger, but we lived through a lot of that similar stuff. I don’t think we ever quite had the gumption to go walk the cotton fields and hoe the weeds like you’re talking about, but our parents put us in the situation where we learned what work was. Anyways, the parable of the three talents, I think it’s a really great way to think about the things you have in your life and how you are going to use them or treat them or think about them.
Kasey Mock: Johnny, I’m going to find that.
Neil Dudley: I kind of want Johnny to have to look it up because I don’t know how much Johnny knows about the Bible really. What’s it going to hurt him to get in there and figure it out? I’ll tell you what, I don’t hang my relationship with God on whether or not I can quote book, verse, etc. in the Bible. Now, it is very important, and I need to be in the word more than I am. Anybody listening, I’m not saying I’m great at it. I have a long road ahead of me; I have a lot of growth in that particular regard. But the value to me is that I know that story.
Kasey Mock: The parable of the three talents comes out of the book of Matthew, chapter 25 and it’s verses 14 through 30. I knew it was in Matthew, but I couldn’t think of the verses.
Neil Dudley: And Cody, like my partner in business or that I work with at Peterson’s, he can quote the Bible. I mean, he just has that mind, and he’s probably read the Bible 20 times in his life cover to cover. I’ve never read it once cover to cover. But I do believe if I die, I’m going to heaven. There’s Jesus saved me from my sins when he died on the cross. I believe a lot of that without any doubt. I don’t feel convicted by God in that way. I might be wrong. And if I don’t know the Bible word for word, God’s going to see me when I get up there and say, look, sonny boy, sorry, you’re not in because you didn’t, you don’t know all the words. I just don’t think that’s the way it works.
Kasey Mock: No, my Bible says that’s not the way it works. My Bible says that those who believe in Jesus Christ, their personal savior, will live eternally with him. And that’s the only requirement to do it. I don’t know how you’d go through life today with there’s so much chaos and uncertainty and instability and threats and just all the garbage of the world, I don’t know how you go through life, one, without a relationship with Christ. Because at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter what my physical condition is, my financial condition is, none of that matters, because the ultimate healing and the ultimate healing comes when we meet the father. And so, nothing on this world really matters at all, except for that. And if you have that, I think you see people, especially when times get chaotic, and bellies get hungry, and people start running out of resources and there is scarcity and there is unknown, people are looking for what to cling to that’s consistent. What can I hold on to that is consistent? And for me, that’s the only consistent in my life. That and that I know my wife loves me, but I’m actually confident in that my wife loves me and that I have consistent because I know she loves Jesus more than she loves me. So that’s how I know that she’s not going anywhere. So, I have that security personally in my faith, but the security in my marriage, because of that.
Neil Dudley: Totally. Some of that I think has been part of what allows me to fail. It’s like, okay, cool, I’ll make- worst-case scenario, I completely screw this all up, make every person in the world mad at me, my parents now hate me, God still loves me. You can’t mess up. You’ve never looked in the eyes of a person that God doesn’t love. That’s a pretty big statement.
Kasey Mock: What on this world could you take from me that really matters compared to that? Not much.
Neil Dudley: So, then it begs to this question, why bother with all of it? Like why pursue success, why pursue a better life for you and your family? Why all of that? Right? The parable of three talents. God gave me a talent. It’s kind of sad if I don’t use it to help others to build my own resources up. You don’t know how you might be able to play those things in life someday.
Kasey Mock: I’m in a business organization called C12. C12 is the largest network of Christian business owners and CEOs in the United States. Each local area has a C12 board. There are 12 board members, naturally, for 12 disciples. It also works well because there’s 12 months in the year, and we focus on each board member’s business one month out of the year. But in C12, we work every month, we have an eight hour board meeting once a month, we go to one of the board members places of business for a day once a month, we have one-on-ones with our coach once a month. And we work to intentionally have profitable businesses that are Christ centered. A Christian owned business doesn’t have to be a nonprofit because profits allow you to bless people and meet the needs of people around you. Now we could get off on this next thing. So, keep me from getting off on this next thing.
Neil Dudley: I don’t know if I can.
Kasey Mock: If good people met the needs of those around them, there would be no need for the government support that we see today. If good people took care of their neighbor, what’s the Bible say? You see somebody in need, if you tell them, if you turn away and tell them be blessed, that’s not what you should do. You should be willing and able to meet that need. And so why have a profitable business? Because a profitable business allows you to be in business with great people. It allows you to have a business that can be a platform to bring honor to the kingdom. It allows you to bless the needs of people around you. It allows you to support your local church and support missions and support the youth organizations and support the ball club in town and support nonprofits and support the hospital and support orphanages. And you have to have profit to do that. As the government gets involved – I’m a small government guy. This is what I want you to keep me from getting into.
Neil Dudley: I think we’re both government guys. We live in Texas, we’re agricultural, we’ve grown up in that environment. So, yeah, I totally believe we can do the right thing. We can choose to do the right thing. We don’t need the government telling us what that right thing is. And in today’s climate, I hope there’s a lot of people listening to this podcast that have the million different viewpoints on that. This is mine, doesn’t mean it’s absolutely right. But I’d have to have a lot of concrete evidence to convince me otherwise, but I don’t want to be the kind of person that believes that’s impossible. My viewpoints are not all perfect. Like I just said a minute ago, don’t believe everything you think. You have to be willing and able to say, okay, cool. I could be wrong. Let me explore that a minute. And that’s what’s helped me be successful in life.
Kasey Mock: The beautiful thing about life, Neil, we all get to pick our own prophets. You get to pick your prophets in health. You get to pick your profits in wealth. You get to pick your prophets in spirituality. If you’re going to you’re going to pick your prophet or the one person you want to follow for fitness or endurance, you’d know that person probably. If you’re going to pick your profit in the cowboy world, the one person you wanted to follow and aspire to be, you’d know that person. Financially, you would know the one person that you wanted to follow for financial advice, if that’s Buffet or who that is. And it’s, we all get to pick our prophets. The same with your faith. If you don’t base your faith on something that I say, base your faith on what you go study and believe to be true. And so, I would challenge you, go pick up the Bible and see if it doesn’t change your life and see if it becomes a credible source of faith and salvation for you. I bet it does. Go compare that to another faith and you settle on we all get to pick our prophets.
Neil Dudley: So as a guy that I know has some visibility into all kinds of lifestyles, I mean, you’re selling ranch properties. Guess what? Most of those are probably going to be people with money. And how do you see the cowboy mindset playing in being valuable to you across all the things that you see and get to participate in?
Kasey Mock: I think everybody that’s ever grown up in America or has been exposed to America has at some point in their life wanted to be a cowboy. You don’t believe me, put a cowboy hat on and walk through an airport anywhere in the world, and what are they going to ask you? You a cowboy? You from Texas? You have a horse? Everybody I think has at one point in their life or another, wanted to be a cowboy. I just never got tired of playing dress up. I mean, I’m serious. I didn’t grow up a cowboy. My dad rodeoed, my dad rode bulls, and he judged some rodeos, but he didn’t grow up in a ranching family either. They lived in town and then he was raised by another family, the [Eizel] family, and they had a catfish farm and they hunted. I mean, they hunted year-round because back then you had to hunt year round because you had to eat. Legal or not, you hunted. My grandmother, she always said, eat lots of gravy because it tastes just like the meat, because back then, they didn’t have much meat. We didn’t grow up ranchers, we didn’t grow up cowboys. I grew up watching John Wayne. And I think everybody has wanted to be a cowboy, and I never gave up on that dream, Neil. I never, I still haven’t. I never got tired of playing dress up. I’ve got a lot of friends that are real sure enough cowboys. I think I’m a good horseman. I enjoy team roping. My dad rodeoed. He hated horses because he never, probably never rode a good one and never understood how to ride one. You get on one and they buck, and you plow them around, and you fall off and wallow around on them, you’re not going to like horses. When we were kids, I would go day work with a guy named Dennis [Elam] a little bit. And by day work, I mean, he day worked, and I got on a horse and rode behind him through the wheat pasture cattle. And that was probably free babysitting for my parents. They knew they could entertain us and get us out of their hair for a day, so they’d send us with Dennis. And of all of the things that we did, that’s something that with me stuck. That’s something that I remembered. And I remember when I was in school, I begged my dad, buy me a roping horse, buy me a roping horse, buy me a roping horse, one time. He said, “If you go out there and you rope that dummy a hundred times in a row, we’ll talk about a horse.” And I went out there, had an old, sorry rope, and I went out there and I roped and missed and roped and missed. And finally, I roped that dummy a hundred times in a row. And I came in and I said, “Dad, I did it.” “What’d you do son?” I said, “I roped the dummy a hundred times in a row. Let’s get a horse.” He said, “I told you we’d talk about getting a horse. I didn’t tell you we were getting one.” So, when I got old enough to drive myself to the practice pen, basically, I started getting on bulls. And we’ve always been around the ranching industry and cattle and goats and hunting. So, ranching’s always been a part of my life, always had a cowboy hat. But I started getting on bulls and probably could have been could have been good at that if I had a good coach and had the resources to continue going and doing it, I didn’t have either. And then in college, when I started making some money and had the right people around me that had good horses, I was able to learn horsemanship and worked for a guy in Stephenville that built homes, Wayne Godfrey built homes. And he had a bunch of driftwood horses. And we rode horses every afternoon, and I had some good friends and a girlfriend actually had some great horses. And so, I was able to learn horsemanship. And then about that time, YouTube was coming along, you start following the Craig Camerons of the world and start learning what horsemanship looks like. And that’s always been what I’ve really enjoyed. I enjoy cows. My wife grew up on a farming and ranching operation in Lometa. They run 2-300 mama cows and farm a bunch of wheat. And so, I enjoy nothing more than going and feeding cows and working cows and being horseback. But you apply that, there’s so much perceived romance to that. What’s the most popular TV series on TV today? Yellowstone. Around the world, Yellowstone. Everybody wants to still not give up on that dream of the West. And our clients, as they come talk to us about buying a ranch, you see them when they step out of the car. I showed a guy place yesterday, stepped straight out of the Bay Area, straight out Silicon Valley, steps out of the car in a brand new pair of Tecovas boots and a Resistol cowboy hat. They want to live that Western lifestyle. And I think, Neil, as our world becomes faster and there’s more technology, and I embrace that, I embrace the technology, I embrace the speed. It’s the world we live in in Driftwood. My wife and I’ve got a, we call it Mock Ranches World Headquarters. It’s a long way from a ranch, but we’ve got a place in Driftwood where we’ve got a horse barn and arena and roping horses, and I rope steers every week and try to teach my kids good horsemanship as we’re doing it. But you can spot these guys. They all want to live that dream, and as they get- I think our bodies, I don’t believe our bodies and our brains are engineered to be in that fast-paced environment all the time. We were meant to be herd- We’re herd people. We were meant to be herd people that interacted with nature, that left the cave every day and hunted down our food and brought it back and the Bible’s real clear in the book of Genesis that these animals are here, put here for us to use and put here for us to eat. And there’s a relationship we get there with the horse and with the cow, and it teaches you a lot. The values I learned as a kid through agriculture and through exposure to animals are priceless. And so that’s you talk about what it means to be a cowboy, I hope I reach that and accomplish that one day of having that title. I hope I reach that one day of having that title, but people have that romance and that’s the life- I think deep down, if you’d ask everybody, if you could have a million dollars, what would you do with it? What would a bunch of them do with it? I’d go by ranch, man.
Neil Dudley: Land. Everybody wants to have their piece of the earth.
Kasey Mock: Everybody wants to be a cowboy until it’s time to do cowboy stuff, though.
Neil Dudley: There’s all that romance to it. And I think value in it, the ethics, the grit, those things that cowboy means to me. There’s I think people deploy that in the high rise in New York City when they’re cutting big deals, there’s cowboy in that room. There’s cowboy right here, just us talking about things that we find valuable and important. So, you don’t necessarily, in my estimation, have to wear a cowboy hat and boots to be a cowboy, to be the kind of person that has- Like I borrow some money from you, and I say I’m going to pay it back, come hell or high water, I’m going to pay that back. That’s just that’s cowboy to me. That’s the, I can’t come up with the word – value.
Kasey Mock: It’s the unteachables.
Neil Dudley: Yeah. You riding behind this guy in the wheat field, you were learning so much just watching him and his, if there was a sick cow, he didn’t ride by it, he doctored it.
Kasey Mock: I’ll give you one right here – in Gary Keller’s office, Gary’s got six or seven direct reports, people that report directly to him, it could be more than that, but there’s not that many. And remember he’s the most successful person in the world of real estate ever. He can hire whoever he wants to hire, come from any university, Harvard, wherever it might be. Two of those people went to Tarleton. Myself and Mindy went to Tarleton. But what I know that Gary looks for in people, he didn’t look for Harvard. He doesn’t look for what’s on the paper. He looks for the unteachables. And the unteachables is just what you said, the work ethic, the standby your word. When he’s not watching you, he doesn’t have to worry about what you’re doing. It’s the unteachables, and that’s the cowboy values.
Neil Dudley: How do you know something about a person is what do they do when nobody’s watching? It’s like I got into this military book stuff for a little while, David Goggins and some of those guys, Jocko Willink.
Kasey Mock: Yeah, Jocko’s writing partner Leif Babin is a friend of ours. His son was in our boys’ kindergarten class.
Neil Dudley: I don’t think those guys are that special particularly because I think there’s a lot of them out there that do- They know how to put it in a book and put their experience and their thought process out so you can consume it and put it into your- I’ve totally used it. Can’t Hurt Me by Goggins changed a lot of my thinking on a lot of things. He talks about one time, it was just like one of the guys while they were in BUDS got told to do, I don’t know, sit ups or something. I can’t remember the specifics of it, but they all went and did something else. Their leaders were – what do you call them? – drill sergeants, whatever it was, had them out getting wet and sandy or whatever. Well, they come back, and that old boy is still sitting there crunching. He was like, nobody was watching, but he knew he was told to and he did it. That’s what I think is a cowboy attitude towards something. So, I don’t care, it’s right. I can not do it, but it’s right to do it. And it’s going to be painful for me to do it, but I’m doing it.
Kasey Mock: Leif and Jocko’s book is another great one, Extreme Ownership. If you haven’t read Extreme Ownership that Jocko Willink and Leif Babin wrote, it’s a great book.
Neil Dudley: Do you read?
Kasey Mock: I do.
Neil Dudley: Yeah. See, I don’t read. I mean, I’m not proud of that. I don’t think it’s something to aspire to. So, if you’re listening, don’t aspire to not read. It’s such, I miss so much, a huge piece of my life or opportunity in my life. I listen to books. I listen to podcasts. So that’s how I consume things.
Kasey Mock: Listen, when I say I read, I listen, I read, I scan. I very, very rarely will take a book and read it cover to cover. Very rarely. I typically like to get the high points and the concepts and go from there. So, another great book is Extreme Ownership.
Neil Dudley: Totally. So, Johnny we will be sure and get all these books we talk about in the show notes so somebody could reference them. A book I’m listening to right now that is a long book – I’ve got like 35 hours of listening time left, and I play everything on two times speed because I’m trying to get a lot in there. Matter of fact, Johnny, this would be kind of fun, run this podcast at two times speed now just so people get a chance to hear what that’s like.
Kasey Mock: Joe Rogan said you should never listen to podcasts at two times speed.
Neil Dudley: Well, I mean, then he’s just not going to agree with me because that’s what I do. And I miss some of it. Like I probably can’t keep it in my brain at that speed, but it’s helping me get across a lot of topics. And if I can pick a piece of it up while I’m going. Anyways, I’m listening to this book called Atlas Shrugged. And the reason I’m listening to it is somebody on some podcast said every billionaire they’ve ever met will point at Atlas Shrugged and say that’s the book. So, I’m listening it. It’s by a lady named Ayn Rand. So, it’s cool. It’s kind of an interesting book. And one of the things the guy said it was like the first, I don’t know, a thousand pages, it’s going to be slow. Then, it starts coming together after the thousand pages. So, I think I might still be in the first thousand pages, and I’ve still enjoyed it. Anyway, so there you go.
Okay, folks, I got to tell you about Root & Roam. In full disclosure, it is a company that my wife and CEO and founder of, so I am going to be slightly biased in that in a way that I think she’s brilliant. But in all fairness and without bias, I will tell you her and the team there know what marketing is. They know how to tell a story and help you tell your story. So, if you’re looking to build a brand, sell a product, really about anything, there is a piece of marketing that goes with it that helps people know your story, who you are, and how they can interact with you. What they say is we inspire brands to make bold moves, to be the best version of themselves, to explore uncharted territories, to tell their stories. If you’re out there looking to do those things, please check out www.rootandroamcreative.com. I promise you they’ll love to help you and you’ll be proud that you did.
Quick pause just to say I hope you know who Peterson Natural Farms is. If you don’t, go check them out, www.petersonsfarms.com. If you have any questions, hit me up. I’ve been working with Peterson’s and my best friend since kindergarten and his wife and my wife and a whole bunch of other really great people for about 20 years now, building a brand and a bunch of products that we think really add value to people’s healthy lifestyles. And I like to say the Cowboy Perspective podcast is a labor of love that I kind of do on my spare time. And I hope to just bring value, tell stories about people that affect me and give me the perspective I have. And I don’t want to steal that labor of love line from Mr. Douglas Burdett, the host of the Marketing Book podcast, without giving him some credit. There’s another something I’d tell you – if you are into building a brand or an entrepreneur of any sort, salesperson of any sort, go listen to the Marketing Book podcast. He reviews great authors’ books about sales and marketing. So, Peterson Natural Farms, go check them out. Thank you for listening to the Cowboy Perspective. Here’s some more.
Oh, yeah, tell me about- See-, I just have to point the, see, this is part of it. Like I have to paint that picture for the listener. Like Kasey wants to talk about some things and I’m not getting to him. So, he’s like, hey man, money, money – ask me what the value of a dollar is because it’s important. It’s great. You have a good perspective on it, and I don’t want to miss it. So, tell us, everybody, listen, because here’s Kasey Mock’s perspective on the value of a dollar. And I think we all should have one.
Kasey Mock: I love the question. And as you’ve gone through your podcast that I’ve been listening to, I love it when you get to that point, that question. Matter of fact, I’m like where’s Johnny’s notes because I want to fast forward to the value of the dollar question and then listen to the rest of the podcast after. I think most people, Neil, want to spend a million dollars, not have a million dollars and certainly not earn a million dollars. So, think about that. If you ask most people in town, wherever town is, you just pull up next to somebody, or Brad sitting over on the couch? Brad, what does one million dollars mean to you? Man, if I had a million dollars, I’d go buy this. If I had a million dollars- I’ve already got to spent in my mind. I’d buy the beach house and by the cigarette boat and buy the Bloomers horse trailer. And I’d load that thing full of a good head horses and I’d be on to the world series of team roping on the weekends.
Neil Dudley: That million would be gone by now. After all that stuff you just said, about four horses and a nice bloomer trailer, my million dollars is gone.
Kasey Mock: Most people want to spend a million dollars, not have one and not earn it. So, if you think about that, you look- That’s why generationally, what do you see generationally? Generation one? Builds it. Generation two? Enjoys it. Generation three? Loses it.
Neil Dudley: I don’t know if that’s right, if that’s even what you’re looking for.
Kasey Mock: You see it a lot. You said it on script. You said it on script. But that’s why. Because there’s not a lot of people that have wealth. Because there’s only a few people- This is why I get so angry about overreach of government into our income. Because buddy, I work every day. You do too. I show up every day and put every- You’ve seen like the gambling example where all my chips are in. That’s every day about eight o’clock in the morning for me. You too. You get up in the morning. We’re all in today, baby. You get up in the morning, we’re all in today, baby. We’re all in with work. We’re all in with our resources. There’s a lot of risk. We’re all in today. Not everybody’s willing to take that risk. And so, if you’re willing to take that risk and build an empire or build something that’s worth something, just use the million dollars. You want to build something that’s worth a million dollars, understand there’s a reason that that’s – this is Kasey talk here – understand there’s a reason that that’s such a small percentage of the population, because there’s a very small percentage of the population willing to go do what it takes to earn that. A lot of people will earn a lot of money during the course of their life and how they spend it will tell you a lot about the person. See, money doesn’t make a person, it reveals the person. Money doesn’t make a person or change a person or make them better or make them worse. All money does is reveals the person. So, if you give somebody some money, what do they do with it? That’s going to tell you who they are. That’s going to tell you what’s really important to them. So that’s my view on the value of the dollar. We’ve been very, very, very blessed financially. For somebody that has a business the size of ours, I probably look at my money less than anybody I know because it’s not the most important thing to me. Our 2021 business goal, the one goal for 2021 is defined by our giving goal because we have a goal to give a certain percentage of what we make as a company and that’s personally, and I know if I’m able to hit that giving goal, I will have hit my financial goal. See, so the goal is not how much we make, it’s how much we can give, because in order to give that much, we’ve got to go put pressure on the system to make enough to afford to give that much and still keep the system going. Another book that you would really, really like, and you can listen to it, is Profit First. Michael Michalowicz Profit First. It’s a great book. The Profit First book is- there’s a few books that you should read for finances – Robert Kiyosaki, Rich Dad Poor Dad, a great book. Gary Keller wrote a book called Shift and one called the Millionaire Real Estate Investor. I’d tell you to read the Millionaire Real Estate Investor. Another great book. So, Robert Kiyosaki, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Millionaire Real Estate Investor, and Profit First. Profit First is by Michael Michalowicz. The Profit First principle is you go to work, you wake up every day, you go to work, and you make a dollar. What do you want to make a dollar for? Well, I want to make a dollar so I can save, so I can support my family, so I can do things with that dollar, so I can give. Nobody went to work to make a dollar to pay their expenses. Nobody said I want to go make a million dollars, net or gross a million dollars in revenue so that I can have a business that takes a million dollars a year to run so that I can net zero. Nobody said that. You’re a successful guy. You can go make whatever you make at Peterson’s doing your own deal, or you can go make that working for somebody else because you’re going to be valuable enough to somebody else that they’re willing to pay you a fee. I mean, somebody in this world would pay you what you’re worth to go do a job. We all employ people. So, if I’m going to take the risk of being self-employed and build businesses and be an entrepreneur, the only reason I would do that is so that I can control the amount of dollars or in some ways control the amount of dollars that our organization is able to bring in so that we can do what we want with it. So, my wife and I, as an example, we follow the profit first model. Every dollar that we bring in, that our company brings in, every single dollar that our company brings in, we have separate accounts, we put money into our giving account first. Because we give off the top of every dollar. So, our money goes in the giving account first. That way, when we see a need or we have a commitment that we’ve made to our church or to an organization or to the livestock show or wherever we’re going to fulfill these giving goals, that money has been spent first and foremost and earmarked for that because that’s our one thing. And then we take our profit money, and we put money in our profit account of every dollar. So, we have a desired profit margin in our business, and we take that desired profit margin out of every dollar, and we put that into our profit account. And then we take our tax money, because I know what Uncle Sam’s going to want, and I believe you ought to pay the tax man. And so, they build our roads, and they defend our freedoms, and whether you like the way the government spends money or not, as a citizen of this country, you still have more freedom than anybody else anywhere else in the world. So, pay what you’re owed and your taxes and make sure- but don’t put your family in a bind by not having that money at the end of the year. So, we take our giving money, our profit money, our tax money off the top of every dollar. And we take that, and we put that in their respective accounts first. And now the business has to run on what’s left. So, of every dollar that we make, our business has to run on about 40% of it. And so that way, I know that the business is running profitably because I’ve already paid my taxes, I’ve already set my giving money aside, and I’ve already paid myself profit. And if the business is not, the business has to come to me and borrow money. And I put my money in years ago. I don’t want to, I don’t want to and I shouldn’t have to put my money back in. In other words, I was the guy that went to the casino and got up and took his initial seed money out and said, I’m only playing on the game. I’m not willing, my wife told me I couldn’t come spend this thousand dollars at the casino anyway, so I dang sure better bring it home. So, I’m not willing to put it back on the table. If I got to put this back on the table, we got problems. And so, we run our business that way. So, money never changes the person. People think if I had a million dollars, I would support that organization. If I had a million dollars, I’d love to give toward the building campaign at church. If I had a million dollars, I’d love to sponsor that orphanage or pay for that kid to go to camp. Understand if you had a million dollars, you probably wouldn’t. If you’re not today out of what you have, you probably wouldn’t then either.
Neil Dudley: That takes me back to the Bible of the widow that come and put her one little coin in.
Kasey Mock: The Pharisees came and shook their money bags and made sure those coins clanged when they hit the plate.
Neil Dudley: And that was more important to Jesus, that giving from that person with so little than all the big giving was from the people with so much. Okay so, you’re your podcast, Land Broker Insider. Have we talked about anything that you want the people that are coming to the Land Broker Insider to hear or know? A lot of what you said I think is super insightful into who you are, and as the leader of that podcast, what they can expect to be getting from you?
Kasey Mock: So again, the Land Broker Insider will follow our company mission of helping people accomplish their goals through land ownership. That doesn’t mean buying a ranch with us, that doesn’t mean selling a ranch with us. It might mean making you a better steward of your family ranch that you want to keep forever and never sell. So, our goal there is to provide entertaining and informative content that helps you and exposes you to how you can build wealth, build a legacy, accomplish goals through ownership, stewardship, management of lands. So, we’ll interview lenders, attorneys, brokers, managers, advisers, interesting people that have been successful with creative business models. Like I want to interview you about Peterson’s and about the Dudley Ranches and about how your family’s been able to hold onto this because somebody else hears that and learns and gets an idea of how they can hold onto a ranch or afford to go buy one and make it work. Because it’s not as easy as buying a place and throwing some cows out there and watching the money come in.
Neil Dudley: There ain’t no money coming in, I’m telling you.
Kasey Mock: So, my Broker Insider is that. It’ll be entertaining. It will be that I can promise, because if it’s not, I’ll lose interest. So, it’ll be entertaining and it’ll be informative.
Neil Dudley: What do you consume? Probably entertaining things that you find value in.
Kasey Mock: Entertaining is never enough though, because there’s so many things that compete for our entertainment mind that, with Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, there’s so many things that compete for entertainment. And entertainment goes in seasons. But what people continue to find valuable, value in, is valuable things, stuff that helps them. But that gets boring without the entertainment. So, the goal is entertainment, and value.
Neil Dudley: If you’ll indulge me, I want to ask you another question. For anybody that’s listened to the Cowboy Perspective or the, I don’t know why I’m having so much trouble remembering Land Broker Insider, the name of your new podcast. And they’re like, so what you hear a lot and what seems a lot is people with wealth are involved in real estate in some way. So, if somebody is listening and they’re like, man, I want to be in that spot someday, what kind of advice would you have for them to like, hey, you don’t own anything, you don’t own your house, you have no play currently out in the real estate world, how could they get involved? What would be some of the first steps you’d recommend?
Kasey Mock: To get into the industry or start moving toward an investment in real estate?
Neil Dudley: I think, I don’t even know. I’m just trying to think somebody listening, it’s like, man, real estate sounds like the play. How do I get started?
Kasey Mock: If you look at- content for information is great. I’m happy to coach you or point you toward good sources of advice because I’ve failed miserably a lot of times.
Neil Dudley: They should maybe just spend the money to get Kasey’s coaching. I mean, that’s go figure out, save the money up, buy the coaching. So, many people are like, I’m not paying to be coached, why am I going to make him, why am I going to pay him for that? Well, it’s a shortcut, people. Buy the shortcut. I mean, I’m interested. I’m not in the real estate game. It’s not the thing I understand. I’m scared of it because I don’t understand it.
Kasey Mock: A good book, if you’re interested in real estate, there’s a couple of books to read – the Millionaire Real Estate Investor by Gary Keller, great book. I think I referenced that one earlier. The Millionaire Real Estate Agent by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan. It’s in the same series of books. A great podcast is Bigger Pockets podcast. Bigger Pockets is a real estate investing podcast. You are more than welcome to call or email me or-
Neil Dudley: That’s right. How do people get in touch with you? What’s your website? Where are you on social?
Kasey Mock: Our website’s easy. Our website is mockranches.com. You can get ahold of me at info@mockranches.com. I’d give you my personal email, but there’ll be a percentage of people that misspell Kasey.
Neil Dudley: Sure. And everybody just heard, he only gets to about five of those emails a day. You want to try to get- There’s a reason you’re protected in that way. I mean, any people that are building businesses and working on their business and not in their business, they’re going to have protection built in. That’s why theirs is so valuable to- reach out to Kasey in any way you can think of, you’ve got to somehow get in his vision and then add value to Kasey’s life. And then he’s going to start thinking, oh, well maybe I should talk to this person.
Kasey Mock: Well, my goal is that value to you, and there’s no wrong question. There’s no dumb question. I promise that. Instagram at Kasey Mock Outsides. I’ll spell my name for you. It’s K A S E Y. I guess Johnny links to some of this too, but Kasey Mock Outside on Instagram or at Mock Ranches on Instagram. And then Facebook is just my first and last name, Kasey Mock or at Mock Ranches. We’re on LinkedIn. We’re everywhere. We’re on LinkedIn. I’ve got-
Neil Dudley: Why do you do that?
Kasey Mock: Again, to help fulfill- not because I enjoy social media. I’ll promise you that. Not because I enjoy social media, but it is in a lot of ways, a necessity, but it helps us fulfill our mission. Our mission is, again, to build businesses that matter with people we value and help others accomplish their goals through land ownership.
Neil Dudley: And you don’t know where they’re going to be looking. So, you just need to be- I always say the only thing we do right at Peterson’s, we just stay in business. I mean, that’s all we do. We just stay in business. We just make sure we’re always around. Like, I can’t tell you how many potential customers we’ve gone and been in front of for 10 years every year. No, not interested. Oh, okay, see you next year. No, not interested. Be here next year. Then finally, they’re just like, okay, we’ll buy it. You know, I mean, jeez, you just always show up. You’re always here.
Kasey Mock: Well, that’s the boredom of business. Oh, I mean, again, we could talk all day. We are going to have to record again.
Neil Dudley: That’s right. Well, we’ve only gone for an hour and a half, and I want us to set a record here. So, this is like, if we can get to two hours, that’s going to be the longest podcast I’ve ever recorded with anybody. And it’s going to be a win.
Kasey Mock: Well, hear this about business, we’ve said a lot of definites about business. Business is not, once you get into it, business is not sexy. Success is not sexy. You’ve heard the Brad Paisley song So Much Cooler Online. That’s the truth about most businesses and that’s the truth about most people’s success. You’re so much cooler online than it actually is when you’re in it. And business success for most people is time on task over time. I could line up, Neil, and we do this at our company conferences, I could line up a hundred of the top, and I mean the top, the top 100 real estate agents in the country, I could line them up right here and you could ask them all, what are the top two things that you do in your business? You’d discover a couple of things. They’re all very similar and they’re not exciting. It’s time on task over time. It’s overkill over time on the basic boring tasks and the basic boring business principles that lead to success. It’s being willing to pick up the phone, make the phone call, get the rejection eight years in a row, and then year nine, you land a client. It’s being willing to get up in the morning, pull your boots on, take care of your animals before everybody else, sit down at your office, take care of your most important thing first, which may not be the most fun thing first. It’s not opening up Facebook in the morning and bingeing on YouTube, and then finally about 10 O’clock getting around to say, man, the day’s going to get away from me before I get to work. And so, then you make a couple of phone calls, and you know what? Facebook messages and posts on there that make you look cool are more gratifying to our own egos, then it’s, that’s mentally, right. That’s what it is. And so that’s more attractive to our own egos then getting on the phone or getting in front of people and actually looking them in the eye and listening to their needs and then taking the time to go address those needs and provide value. And by the way, there’s a lot of rejection in that path. And you don’t always find money in that path. And if all of us could charge by the hour, like an attorney, that would be a great thing. But the reality is I put sometimes 40, 50, 100 hours into a project just to earn the client’s business and the thing may not sell. The thing may not sell. And so that’s the dirty truth about business. What you said is so true, that’s the truth about business.
Neil Dudley: Your time on task was a very front of mind thing for me. You talked about goals. I get way more excited about leading and lagging indicators, like I want to make a million dollars feels like a lagging indicator to me. I want to say – and it’s okay to have lagging indicators, they’re important – but you painted it when you said, okay, then you’ve got these three things that define how I get to that. So, when you’re, and then I just lost my total train of thought, where I was going. Oh, what got me talking about leading and lagging indicators was time on task in this, there was a guy I heard on a podcast that says, the Asian people are maybe perceived as better at math, but in a real study by Malcolm Gladwell, he found all they did was spend longer on the problem. They just spent one minute longer working the problem, where the Americans we’re rushing through it.
Kasey Mock: My good friend, Tim Heyl in Austin, Tim has the Heyl Real Estate Group in Austin. He’s a Keller Williams agent as well.
Neil Dudley: Such a high five to Gary Keller, because he’s just built huge- like people that are underneath his umbrella are huge.
Kasey Mock: Well, that’s because Gary wakes up every day, never thinks he’s the smartest person in the room. He asked himself the question every day, how do I build the business such that our very best people would never have to or want to leave? Because he built a business before where there was a ceiling of achievement for people, and they all walked out one day. He said, well, crap, we better not make that mistake again. So now how do we build a business so that our very best people-? You get it right. So, my good friend, Tim Heyl, who has the top, the Heyl Real Estate Group in Austin, and Tim owns a number of extremely successful companies. He’s a great dude. He’s a very humble dude. He’s a Christian guy. He is a family man. He’s a great dude. Tim realized early in his real estate career – and I don’t want to totally tell the story for him – but Tim realized early in his real estate career that he was going to starve if he didn’t do something different and he looked up and he said, what’s the most important thing I do every day to produce business? And it was make phone calls. So, he hired a coach, and I think I’m telling the story right, that Tim went to what’s called Mega Camp, or agent camp, went to Mega Camp with $3,000 to his name. Spent a thousand of it on a coach, told him accountable that next month to pound the phone and service his clients and have that face time and phone time with his clients. And it worked. The next month he did it again, and it worked, and next month he did it again. And all of a sudden, you do that very long, and here’s where you hit ceilings of achievement business. All of a sudden, he had too much work going to do his lead generation. And so, he started only servicing the work. Well, then your pipeline dries up. So that’s why most people’s businesses go in cycles. That’s why, if you follow most businesses, they go on annual cycles. You load the pipeline, you service the work. Your pipeline’s empty. You hustle to load the pipeline, you service the work. Your bank account follows that, your anxiety level follows that, your stress level follows that, everything follows that, your flow of business follows. Which disrupts your organizational chart and your ability to hire people and keep them employed and keep them happy. And so, Tim realized that, so Tim said, well, man, I’ve got to lead generate three hours a day. In his world, that was his number. I got to lead generate three hours a day, but I can’t, there’s not enough hours in the day. How do I leverage this out? So, he went back to the Millionaire Real Estate Agent book, Gary’s MREA book, what’s MREA books say? How do you strategically remove yourself from every part of your work based on the value your time? So, you start hiring a transaction coordinator, you start hiring a showing specialist to be on the road for you a little bit and show some of those previews. And then Tim ends up hiring and creating a whole company called Phone Animal to make calls because he knew the number one thing he could do to grow the business is to be on the phone more with buyers and sellers. And so, you end up leveraging that out so you can service the leads and move with the movers. It’s again, it’s business. How do I build a system around-? Maybe now, when I say you have to embrace time on task over time with the boring activities, it doesn’t mean you forever are the cold caller, it doesn’t mean you forever are the one that mucks the stalls, it doesn’t mean you forever are the one that grooms the horse, or you forever are the guy that cuts the bacon. At some point a business is an organization that supports a group of people that can do that profitably. And that’s where you reach scalability.
Neil Dudley: Yeah. Scaling is a, man, it is a whole other podcast. Okay, Kasey, I just have to say thank you so much for sitting here, being a part of this conversation with me. I mean, I love you. I’m just like, I love this guy for what you stand for, for the way you are willing to give and share. People think of giving as money. That’s not always true; sometimes it’s time. And that is the thing that you’re giving me time. You’re giving my listeners time. And I appreciate that so much. As I look at cowboys, I see how much time they gave me riding behind the horse and them just talking to me. Or my parents, just that time they spent telling me pick the trash up, throw it in the trash can. How many times do they have to tell me that? I didn’t pick that up on the first try.
Kasey Mock: Leave it better than you found it.
Neil Dudley: It was years of them bothering to mess with me as just a kid. Now, I kind of get sad about that because I think in this fast-paced world, a lot of parents aren’t bothering with that time. It’s almost like- and I can do it.
Kasey Mock: Hey, here’s something – if you’re interviewing for a job with me and you want to be a real estate agent, and we go preview a ranch and we’re riding a horse, which doesn’t happen as often with that situation, or riding in the Polaris, the Lehigh power Polaris or the Woods Cycle Country Kawasaki Mule, because I do business with both of those guys, both awesome men. And we drive by a piece of trash on the ranch road, now here’s a qualifier to go to work for me, do you stop and pick it up? A can blew out of somebody else’s, do you stop and pick it up or do you drive on by it because what you’re going to do is that important?
Neil Dudley: Yeah. And that’s just an easy way to see what somebody, who they really are.
Kasey Mock: I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been in the pasture with a farmer or rancher, and there’s a feed sack against the fence or a can on the side of the road or a hay string, and I’ll stop and pick that up when we’re looking at a piece of property. They’ll look at me like I can’t hardly believe you stopped and picked that up. I’m thinking we’re stewards of this place. That’s just the way I was raised. I say yes, sir, and no, sir, to my kids. Man, I appreciate it. This has been fun. We’re going to do this again. I promise this will be not episode final.
Neil Dudley: Cool. Because there’s still a list of questions here we never got to, a lot of topics, we could do a deeper dive into things. I feel like this was a broad, kind of a broad take on a lot of different things to give everybody a taste of your thought process and the things that are important to you. I still I’m dying to get deeper into that is becoming a real estate agent the way you get wealth in real estate is buying a commercial property or rental houses or something? So, I want to explore that someday with you. We don’t have to do it today.
Kasey Mock: We can go through an episode on wealth, building, and real estate. I think right now we’re going to see if we can get bucked off, making a circle.
Neil Dudley: Let our hats blow off a few times. Folks, I think take this, if you’ve took anything from this episode today, take this, pick the trash up. When you see the trash, pick it up. Somebody is going to recognize you for it. Y’all, love you. Thanks for listening so much. And Kasey, thanks for being here. Let’s go do some cowboy stuff later.
Kasey Mock: Go get ‘em, Neil.
Neil Dudley: Now, we came to the end of part 2. So, you’ve heard the full conversation between Kasey and I, or if you happened to catch part 2 only, be sure and go back to listen to part 1. We had a lot of, well, I thought, great conversations, stuff that was valuable to me. I learned a lot of things. I hope you did too. Now, take that, use it where you can, discard the pieces that don’t fit into your perspective, and come back in a couple of weeks. We’ll have another episode, and we’ll keep exploring the cowboy perspective. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate all your support. If you haven’t subscribed on any of your podcast listening apps or platforms, please do that. If you happen to listen on iTunes, give me a star or write a review of one of the episodes, that would really help me out. Heck, I just like to win. So, thank you so much. Hasta luego.
The Cowboy Perspective is produced by Neil Dudley and Straight Up podcasts. Graphics are done by Root & Roam Creative Studio, and the music is by Byron Hill Music.